Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Marketing, Media and Money podcast. And I am really excited about this interview this time, because we're going to touch on something that might be a little bit uncomfortable, right? Because sometimes things are right, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be discussed. So today, that's what we're going to do. So what if the way you see yourself is quietly holding you back from the success and fulfillment you deserve? And imagine the ripple effect of struggling with body image, not just on your confidence, but on how you show up in your business, lead your team or share your ideas with the world, and what is the key to unlocking your full potential? Is it about changing how you look, but transforming how you think and feel about yourself? So today, we're going to dive deep into going beyond the mirror, breaking the body image barrier, and rewriting the narrative. And I know somebody who's going to help you do that. She walks this talk every single day, and I've had the pleasure of meeting her in person several times, and so let me tell you a little bit about her. So Karianne Munstedt is an award winning portrait photographer, speaker and author. She's an artist and nurturer, fiercely motivated by using her talents to make women feel confident, empowered and whole, and through her portrait business and as an inspirational speaker, Carrie Ann, helps women see their beauty and increase their confidence, both in photos and life, so they can proudly stand out as the face of the business. So Carrie Ann, thank you so much for being here with me today? Yeah, I think this is such an important issue, and I'm really glad that we're talking about it now, not because we shouldn't be talking about it all the time, but I just really feel like, right now, what's going on in the world and all the things that people are talking about? I mean, I really feel like we need a pattern disrupt, right? We need to just kind of disrupt the conversation. So I'd like to just jump right in and start with if we're going to talk about body image, which I think is deeply personal, right? And it does influence our and it influences our personal success and our professional success, we think. But why do you think that this connection between the two so often goes unnoticed.

Think we really click together like, you know, we think, we think that our body image might affect, it affects us in our personal time. But then, like, we don't actually sit down and think about how much you know, worrying about whether you know, worrying about if we're in photos or not. You know, being scared of being in a photo that holds us back, especially if we're business owners, right to me not wearing what we want to wear. That holds us back because it doesn't give us, put us in our confidence, right, when we're not wearing things that we love to wear. You know, it holds us back from going to networking meetings, because we're so worried that people might be judging us based on the size of our body or what we look like, there are just so many different ways that body image holds us back in our businesses that we don't even really put together, because we just don't even, we don't even see that they're linked. And so, you know, I know this for 100% sure, but true, because it affected me in my corporate business. I was in a I was in a corporate job for 17 years. And I look back now, and I think I see all the ways that I held myself back because my confidence was so low due to how I felt about my body, and, man, I didn't see it at the time, though, at all. So so now that I am able to go back and see it, I'm like, wow, we need to start talking about this more, bringing it to the forefront, because I truly believe that when women start to love or at least accept their bodies more, it's just going to transform their mindset so they can just soar so much more. Whether they're at a perfect job or they're in a business,

It's really important too. I remember one time I was in this conversation, in this like focus group, and there was this girl, and, I mean, she was just like, well, there is no normal, but for what society is, right, you know, right, yeah. And somebody said this remark after she left, and I have to tell you, I never forgot it. And while it wasn't said to me, I never forgot it, and it kind of affected me mentally. Isn't it amazing how somebody's words can really affect you. And the thing that they said was, and they said it just like this too. So for those of you who are actually watching instead of listening, you're going to get to see me. They actually said just because they make it in your size doesn't mean you should wear it. Oh yeah, that was so ugly, right?

The thing about comments like that is that it had nothing to do with the with the lady who was wearing whatever she wanted to wear and felt good in at that time. It had everything to do with the. With the person who said that and their own insecurities around their body, right? I am 47 years old, and I am wearing crop tops all the time now, and because, like, I just feel really good and like, sexy and strong and crop tops. And I mean, should a 47 year old woman be wearing a crop top just because it comes in my size, I don't know really, but like, who's to say what we should and should not wear that is deeply individual and personal based on how we want to feel. And just because someone else doesn't feel the same way, it doesn't mean that they need to share those opinions as well, right? That's her own internal work that that woman needs to do and to the not also not say comments like that to other people, so

I know, and it blew me away, too. And I remember, like, since I've known you, I have to tell you, I catch myself now when I say things and I'm like, no Carrie Anne would put me a check if I said that, right, you know. And and I catch myself and, like, just literally, like, two weeks ago, when I was going out, you know, shopping for winter clothes, and my husband was with me, and I came out, and I'm like, Do you think I'm too old to wear leather pants? And he said, Absolutely not. Those look really hot on you babe. Like, you know, you should get them. So I did. I wore them the other day, and I felt so good in them, bad, you know. So it was just like, so interesting that, you know, so really like the roles that society and external influences play in shaping our self perception. Kylie is kind of like amazing when I see it, and not just in what I think most people think. I think a lot of people would probably think, oh yeah, if you're like a 14 plus, that probably does. But I'm going to tell you my best friend, she's like 85 pounds, dripping wet, and she will say to me, oh, Patty, I don't feel comfortable wearing this or what do you think about that? So it's across the board. It's across the board. Yeah. So

That's a really important point, Patty, is that like, just because so society has told us what good bodies look like, right? I mean, we were told all of our lives that thin bodies, white bodies, you know, stuff like that, that those are the ideal. And just because someone has is in that type of body does not mean that they do not have the same body insecurities as a very, very curvy woman. Does? You know what I mean? It's like we all suffer from body insecurities in one way or another because of conditioning that we have learned through society, conditioning that we have learned from from our parents, from our peers. You know, at some point in our life, someone has made some remark like that lady did to let his, you know, been with you for this long, right? And then we've taken that as gospel, and, you know, thought to ourselves, oh, we shouldn't be wearing those leather pants. I am a woman of a certain page. I should not be doing that, right? And then it takes someone else, right? Me Maybe talking about body image. Every time we get on a call, we're talking about body image, right? Patty, like, it's what I tell the time, right? So, so my voice in your head making you, like, stop and actually listen to those voices, right? Because if you wouldn't have actually taken a second to really kind of listen to that voice and challenge a little bit and bring it up to your husband too, like you could have just put it on and taken it right off, and not even what went out and asked your husband, right? But you you listen to nothing, you were able to challenge for a second, and then go out and then ask for his input to help you kind of with that challenge. And then you were able to kind of reframe that thinking around what is acceptable to wear and what's not acceptable to wear. And now you're rocking those leather pants. It feels like hot and powerful in a ride. And I love it other

Other things too, because I feel like there's so many things that come up. Like, I know that sometimes I'm in conversations with people and, you know, women, you know what, since my company works specifically with women, I hear things all the time like, you know, I'm so I'm so much gray now, but I love it. It's so beautiful. It's white. My mom did that. I'm thinking about just going, like, letting the white go. And then the other girls in the group were like, oh, no, like, you're a speaker. That this wasn't to me, right, you know, but you're a speaker. You you can't do that. Or the whole one about, oh, once you're over, what 60 you're supposed to wear your hair short, and all of those things, right? And I'm thinking to myself, are you kidding? I have gray hair and I color it just because I like the color of my hair. But if I wanted to, I would, and I like long hair, and my hair is going to be long all the way into the day I die because I like it. I don't care what society tells me, but, but I do know that there are subtle things that, you know, those are kind of big things, right, you know, but there's little, subtle things that I don't think people notice. And I think sometimes, if you are a speaker, or you are a professional and you're in the public eye, sometimes we have these pressures, how do you feel that they. It can break free from some of those pressures that society is pretty much telling us we should be listening to.

Yeah, it's hard, right? I mean, we, we all have those pressures, especially if we're in certain, certain, you know, arenas like up on stages or something, where you've been told that you're supposed to dress in a professional manner, you're supposed to wear heels, you're supposed to have your hair colored, all these things, right? That we're supposed to have done. And you know, what makes us different is truly what the world needs, right? So us leaning into our differences, whether it's wearing, you know, wearing sneakers that actually so many speakers are wearing now on stage, right? Fun sneakers, or wearing more casual outfits, or, you know, going all great, or whatever it is that they want to do, what makes them different is what's actually going to make them stand out even more. And you know what? I mean, make them more even more memorable, because people are going to remember that that person is stepping into their own realness, their own authenticity, right? But I know it's not hard. I mean, I know it's not easy. It's hard when you've been conditioned for so long to do things a certain way. So, you know, I think that the the only thing that you can do is just take small steps towards it, right? Just do one little thing. You take one little action every day that kind of moves you more and more towards it. Whether it's, you know, wearing, wearing, they have, like, sneaker heels now, so cool. So their heels with their sneakers, so they're comfortable heels like so, so fun. So just like doing little things, you know, letting a little bit of gray show through. Maybe you don't want to go full gray yet, or something like that, but letting a little gray show through, you know, wearing, wearing a more fun, you know, sparkly shirt or something like that, rather than, like the professional, you know, suit and jacket or something off day, taking little steps every single day, and then you will be amazed by how much you transform within a year, because you just were able to, like, slowly but surely, kind of like, eased into things. Also on social media, follow people who are doing things a little bit different, because the more that you see people doing things differently, the more you know it becomes normalized to your eyes, and then when you do it for yourself, it's more normal, rather than feeling like it's you're doing something totally different, because you're seeing that other people are doing those things and rocking those things. So I think that those are the two easiest ways to start making our own changes when it comes to you know, how we are showing up in a more authentic way to us,

It'sreally important, like I know in the last year, one of the biggest changes I did for me was I really embrace color, meaning that while Black is like my favorite color, and I always like to say that I'll wear black until they come up with something to something darker, right? I just like it. However, I also know that I've always fed myself the line that black makes me look thinner. And last year, I have just embraced wearing my brand. And all of a sudden, you'll see me everywhere now in turquoise and purple. And I think, Why in the world have I not been doing this because I feel so good, because I live my life in color. Yes,

I love it. I love it, right? Like, we set that lie, right? I'm a curvy woman. Patty. You're a curvy woman. Like, it's not, it's not a negative thing. Like, and we have been fed this lie that we should show up in black all the time because it makes us look slimmer. It makes us look smaller. Like you love black and want to wear black hair, both in black. You're like, no reason for it. I'm using colorful things too, but I just, you know, saw this outfit in my closet this morning. I like, that's what I want to wear today. But like, I love to dress in colors as a curvy woman. You know, it obviously highlights my body then more and it makes me more visible, more seen. And you know, we've been trying to do the opposite and be be less seen, and in wearing black helps us with that. But man like again, stepping into our authenticity like body size literally does. It doesn't matter. Like we are critical of ourselves, but no one is as critical of us as we are of ourselves. No one is like, I see, you know, curvier women out wearing colors. And I'm like, yes, go girl, right? It's not like, Oh, why are you wearing dogs? We were cute. Wow, right? Like, just these lies that we've been defended by a society or wherever we pick them up down the road, these rules that we're supposed to follow. And, you know, anything that we can start doing, to to keep to slowly but surely break these rules and just live a more authentic life, like life out color, like you said, you know, to who we are. It's just again the world. What the world needs is, you know, what makes us different is what the world needs. So if, if living life and wearing big colors is like what makes us different to what we love, that is what the world needs to see more of. So, yeah. So I embrace that. Yeah. Embrace it.

Last year for my birthday, that same best friend sent me these flowers, and they were psychedelic colors, like I'd never seen flowers i. Flowers, so all different colors, but not on the same flower like so they were, like, all multi colored and stuff. They were absolutely beautiful. And so I called her up, and I was like, Wow, this was kind of unique. And I love them. And she says, That's because you live your life in full color. And as soon as I saw them, they made me think of you. And I have to tell you, it was probably like the greatest feeling. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, that's so amazing. And it was like, literally, in that moment, I said, You know what? I'm just embracing that it is who I am. It has always been who I am. Why is it not what I wear like, you know? So that is

Just kind of like alignment you're, you know, who you are on the inside wasn't in alignment with how you were showing up on the outside, right? So, so just having that reminder, and how beautiful to have a friend who sees you so well, to be seen so well by your good friend, so that she can help you see yourself in that way as well. I mean, it's just, it's beautiful.

Oh, thank you. You know, I think some of these things, these body image, they manifest, but what would you say are some? I mean, we talked about some big things, like some big ones, but what do you think are some subtle ways that body image issues manifest, and specifically in professional settings, you know, and you know, like, how can we become more self aware so that we can create healthier habits and boundaries? But we're still focusing on business growth, but yet, we get to decide, right? We get decide because I do think there are some subtle ones, and maybe we don't really notice it when they're manifesting.

Well, you tell me what you think are some of these subtle ways. I want to hear what your thought, what your thoughts are around to this. Well,

I know that for me, like I just said, some of these, you know, some of these bigger ones, you know. But I think way, way

I see our hair is that, which is that we were talking about some of the bigger things. But there are like, little things

I hear people say, or whatever that, like, you know, even when you read in a magazine or she says, I laugh. Like, like, here's one that I think is, like, super funny is I read the other day, like, because I knew I was having you on the show. Like, all the like, you know how? Like, it's like, all of a sudden, you see all these things, right? You know, they'd be coming up, I think, of all the time, but I would notice it was like, Oh, I'm gonna bring that up when I talked to Carrie Ann, yeah, I read the other day that there was this rule, this fashion rule. Like, I'm like, really a fashion rule, a fashion rule that said that the larger you are, the bigger the purse you should carry, and that if you are a large woman, you shouldn't carry a small purse, because that just amplifies your size. And I was like, really, who gets to decide? Because I've seen some people who are, like, a size five, and they carry, like, everything in the world in their purse, right? You know, or whatever. Like, I carry purses depending about what I'm doing that date, like, I wouldn't like, what I look like, what size I have, or anything, determine that I was like, Who gets to decide that? Right? You know, I thought that was like, so crazy, so

So crazy. Like, you're being like, does get to decide that? Well, who does settings do you tell me someone what size PERS? Like, it's such a silly but there are people going to meet that and take part and take that as part of their own story now, and a rule that they have to live by and go out and buy different purses because their persons are too large for them, or their persons are too small for them. Man, why can't we just do whatever the heck we want to do when it comes to what we wear, what we carry around, you know, the way that we do our makeup, the way that we do our hair. Why are those sewing like, what is it about all these rules? And you know, what it comes down to is, it's, it's about selling more things to people honestly, right? Because if we tell you that you can't do this, then you're going to want to go out and buy these things, right? So, so it's just about, it's about, you know, selling more things and and having more profit in certain industries. I mean, but what a silly, silly thing. And you're right, it is so subtle, because you're just reading along in a magazine, and it's like, oh, wow, wow. I hadn't even thought about that, but now I've thought about it. I should really start doing this right with if you're, if you're not able to kind of challenge those thoughts and see the silliness behind it. Wow. That's such a disservice that that is honestly going to make to so many people who are reading that magazine. Because, you know, again, we don't, we don't a lot of times, we don't listen into these, to these things. We just, you know, hold like, these are the rules that women are supposed to live by. We're just going to go ahead and can, you know, live by these roles. And you know, honestly, like bodies, our voice is the only thing that matters when it comes to our bodies, right? It's, it's my body, it is my voice, and it's my roles that I play by. And so, you know, like you wear whatever size purse that you want to wear, I know, and

it's like, it's, it's all around us, and I really think about that, because I have to tell you, I've always been about wearing what I want to wear, and like, I'm kind of a fashionista, right? You know, I have I love clothing, I love jewelry, I love you, love business, right? Ladies and i i wear what I like, and I feel like when I look in the mirror. I just think, oh, yeah, like, I'm rocking that. That looks really good if I look in the mirror and I I don't, I mean, like, there's colors that I wear, but not because I don't think that I should, just because I'm like, Oh, I don't like the way I feel in that. It's always about how to feel, yeah.

It'snot about an external source telling you what you should do. It's like, Hey, I still feel this outfit, or I don't feel good in this color or something. It's a more of an internal feeling rather than an external, you know, rule,

I know, yeah, that's kind of so I feel like, you know, in business, and not just as an entrepreneur, but in corporate too, what role do you think leaders and organizations can play in fostering a workplace culture that will support, you know, self acceptance and body positivity among their teams.

The food pyramid. Look at that one. I mean COVID, like,

It's so outdated, also, so much lately that, like, you know, we've been told, you know, if you want to lose weight, you should be eating, you know, vegetables all the time, all this stuff. And I go see a naturopath, and she's like, stay away from, like, most vegetables, because they're actually really not good for you.

How was it

what we've been told, like, my entire life, like, you should to be healthy, you should eat vegetables. And she's like, that's a lie that's been told to us. Right? Health is so deeply personal, and it's so different for every single person, because person who looks super trim and who maybe goes running every single day could actually be very unhealthy when it comes to, like, their lab work and stuff. Person who is very curvy and maybe doesn't eat the healthiest can actually be really healthy when it comes to their lab work, right? So, so even corporate wellness programs that I appreciate, that they the ideas to create a healthy workplace, but I feel like it's also, you know, contributing to, like, oh, well, if you're a larger person, you should be moving your body more. You should be watching your calories more. You should be doing this to become healthier. So in ways, I feel like it also kind of promotes an unhealthy self image for some people in the organization too. So, you know, I really just think that we need to the leaders, especially again, whether it's leaders of corporations or our own personal self as a leader within our business, really need to sit down and think about what the message is that we want to create and what we are doing to perpetuate either a negative body image message or a positive body image message, because it's just not Something that we have thought about in corporations and companies at all. Right, it's it's something that I feel like we've overlooked for a long time. And I truly think that the more that we can love ourselves and accept ourselves, accept our bodies, the more I know I've already said this one time, but the more that we are going to soar in whatever role that we are in, so the more that leaders can do to to promote body acceptance within their business. I just think that it's going to turn turn people around and and the more love that they give to themselves, the more kindness acceptance they give to themselves. You're going to start seeing that in the businesses as well. It's really important.

I mean, I'm a mother of six daughters, so it's very, very important to me, right? Know. And I raise my girls really, to to be able to break out of that, right, you know, and to be able to be who they were. I remember some of the at the time, some of the wildest things, you know, that they wanted to wear and and they want to do. And I was like, You know what? This is your individuality. Who am I to try to change that? I was like, oh. And I remember, like, one particular time, I remember thinking, Oh, that one was, you know, something. I was like, oh, but then I was thought to myself, it's clothing, or even if they want to color their hair, it's hair right,

You know what? I mean, it's like, hair is right.

Like, who really does care? So I feel like I have always just, you know, kind of gave them the freedom to do that. And now that my girls are grown up, I see how they are fearless, you know, absolutely fearless, and what they want to do,

Yes, absolutely. And it's such an important, you know, it's such an important message for moms out there, also, because, right, so we in our generation, right? Like we were fed certain things by society, by our parents, by our peers, whatever of the way that you should and should not be, the way that women should and should not be, whether what they're speaking or they're wearing or whatever it was, and it's our turn to really dig deep when we have daughters, to not pass those same things onto our children. It's really hard sometimes, right? Because, like you said, so I have a 19 year old stepdaughter also, and there have been some times where she's wearing something, and I am like, What in the world is she wearing? Should I really let her go out of the house like this, right? And I really have to sit down and really challenge myself on those beliefs, because what is wrong with like she is expressing herself in this way. And yes, it's maybe not a way that I would express myself and and I know that it's also coming from a place of wanting to keep her safe. Because if she's wearing really short shorts or a really crop shirt or something like that, I know she's going to get more, perhaps unwanted gaze from people that she does not want that from you know. So I know that there's a safety aspect of it, too. But really, she is an individual expressing her individuality, and she needs to be allowed to do that without us policing what they're wearing, what they are putting in their mouth, you know, all that kind of stuff. For sure. Her weight has also fluctuated over the years, right? And and I work so hard not to say anything to her about her weight, because as women, especially, our bodies change over time. Our weight fluctuate throughout our entire lives and and at different ages, and, you know, just different things going on in lives and, and it's so important to not constantly be saying, you know, oh my gosh, you know, I've noticed that you've gained weight. You know what's going on with you. It's like, if you want to talk to her about what's going on with her, let's, let's preferences on the fact that she's gained weight. Like we know, we know what we're seeing. And so maybe we just want to say, is everything going on, okay, life is, is there anything that you want to talk about? Is there anything that we you know, we see it, but we don't want to make that as the thing. Like, oh, you have gained weight. There must be something wrong going on in your life. You know? It's like, no, maybe she's hungry, like, maybe she's having

A growth spurt and she needs more calories, right? You know,

I think I can, like, stop commenting on our daughter's bodies, right? I mean, such an important thing, and I'm so proud of you, Patty for for seeing that and for doing that for your daughters. It's such a good gift that you were able to give to them as a mom, and one of the greatest gifts that you could get to that.

Thank you so much. Now, I come from a family of five girls too, and so it wasn't always that way when I grew up, right? You know? And I remember it's probably looking back, I'm going to say is probably one of the biggest accomplishments. I feel like I did without knowing that I did, right? You know how like sometimes things you set out to do, and then sometimes you just look back and you're like, oh, wow, I really had my stuff together when I said but I remember my oldest daughter, my first born and and I was still pretty young, and I remember looking at her like, I can pull it up right now, looking at her. And the very first thing I said to her, when she was literally three bare breaths born, I said to her, the buck stops here, your life will not be my life.

Oh, so good, so gone. I mean in lots of different ways, right? I mean, the body image and one of the ways as well, right? Like these, these types of, you know, promoting negative body image. It's generational, right? Like, like, we learn things. We learn things because we are things from our parents and our moms, probably mostly, but our dads as well, you know, added into it. You know, my dad was very much like he had to have a wife who was very trim and, you know, and then he needed to have a daughter who was very trim too. So I saw the way that my, that my, you know, my mom needed to maintain this look because the way that my father needed her to be. And then I, and, you know. Related that too, so that I started every single diet so I can be trim as well, right? It just but, but they learned it from another generation too, right? It's a generational and we have to be the people that stop this generational cycle of negative body absolutely that we are, so that we allow our children and our grandchildren just to release that shit right off. I can see that on here. No, that's fine. All that mindset crap, not have to deal with it anymore, so they can go and focus on things that are so much more important in this life. You know what I mean, rather than being held back, like how they feel about their bodies?

I know when you think about it, though, there's a lot of things like, you know, not just body image, I see that it has affected a lot of things. Like, I remember one of my daughters coming home when she was in school. She was like, in junior high, and she said, and she was a good student, and she got a, like, a C on a test, and she said, and I said, Well, do you need some help? Because she was a really good student, just naturally was, and she said, Well, my teacher said that I'm just not a good test taker. So mom, you just need to understand I'm not a good test taker. I'm like, No, you're not going to wear that label. I mean, you're not. Don't accept that. Don't accept that. God, because something right so,

Oh, wow. The thing that people can just stay as, like an awful remark, but then we take again as like gospel for our life, right? I mean, it becomes part of our identity and who we are just because of an off little thing. And so bravo to you for like, listening to that and being like, No, you are not taking that as part of your identity, right? No matter what it is those you know, whether you're about. I mean, so many people have been told that they were bad in school, and so they just took that as their identity, as they were bad in school, or whatever they were bad in but. But that is just somebody say a snug remark, maybe having an off moment, but it's, it's remarkable how much little, little things like that can impact other people for them, literally, the rest of their lives.

I know when you think about them, though, really, I mean, so I will just say, like, the biggest thing that affected my life is I grew up till I was like 25 I was probably like 115 pounds, and then I had a health scare. And when I had that health scare, I had to have chemotherapy for like, a year, totally fine. Now everything worked out. They figured out what it was, but for a year I had to have chemotherapy, and I gained 80 pounds. Like, in that time, taking all those steroids and stuff, I gained like 80 pounds, and I was just like, so freaked out about it. And I remember afterwards when they did the surgery, and I was fine going to the doctor and saying, it's like, so am I going to lose that 80 pounds? Now? Like, you know, I was like, totally freaked out. I was like, 25 I'm like, am I going to lose that 80 pounds? Because I couldn't believe that it gained so much weight. And the doctor said to me, I'll never forget it. He said, Patty, you should just be glad that you're alive and don't worry about the weight, because now that you've had those steroids, you're probably never going to lose that weight. And I was like, really? He said, Yes, and you should just be thankful. And I bought into that. And I think for years and years after that, I literally didn't lose weight, because I just said, Oh, I should just be glad that I'm alive. My doctor said that, because I know those steroids and I took all those that I'm never going to be able to lose the weight. I think if I look back, I wish I would have looked at him and just said, You know what? Watch me, right? You

well and done like, I mean, okay, take, take, you know, he says he, he's allowed to feel and to say what he thinks, but you're allowed to also not believe what he said and not like that as your own, as your own rule. Now, right? Again, we don't know, like he's a doctor, like he, you know, he is the expert in this. Like we should listen to those people, but really, we've got to listen to our own internal selves and do what works for us. And you know, that might be different than what you know, society has told us to do, what doctors and experts are telling us to do, but the more that we just listen to ourselves, and the more that we have our own voice for our own selves, our own bodies. I mean, that's going to get you so much for but you're right. I mean, what? What a terrible No. Oh, anytime I

think about it, I think that's why, when I had my children, you know, I was kind of like, nope. We're just not going to just take on what everybody else says, you know. But here's kind of the thing, how do we think we can, I mean, we're professionals, right? How can we approach conversations about body image, or some of these struggles, you know, in the workplace or in organizations or groups we're a part of, or all of these things without feeling vulnerable or exposed ourself, probably have to go and

We have to feel vulnerable. I mean, that is really the I mean, when we're talking about body image, how can it not be a vulnerable place and an exposed place to go, like we have to, to expose those insecurities that we have, right? I mean, that's it. Truly. The only way to get through it is to talk about these things. Because, you know, when it comes to body image, and especially for you know, if we have weight on us, and we've been told by society. That you know being fat or having weight is bad, you know it's it can be very shameful to to talk about these things. There can be a lot of shame with it. There can be a lot of embarrassment with it. And there, you know, if we're, if we're going to change society and we're going to have conversations around this, we're going to have to be vulnerable, we're going to have to open up, and it's going to be hard and it's going to be scary. But as you know, Glennon Doyle and so many people say we can do these hard things, we can have these scary conversations, because once we lean into them and we do these hard things, that's when the shame starts to go away. That's when the embarrassment starts to go away. You know, I am the exact same way. So I have lost some weight over the past couple of years, but at my highest weight, I was 297 pounds, right? And there is a time where I would have never admitted I was 297 pounds because it was very shameful. I mean, like I had, I done a lot of like, body work by that time, and so I was finally able to get through it. But before that, you know, I would never say my weight publicly, because, oh my gosh, and people would judge me for the size of my body, right? But finally, I was just like, the only, the only way to get through this stuff is to talk about it. Is to, you know, you don't have to necessarily share your number, but to just start talking about it and having those vulnerable conversations and I did. I started having them with individual people. I started having my clients. I started putting them on social media. And that's really, really probably gets vulnerable when you put it down on social media. And I have and because I was vulnerable, because I exposed myself and and let all life, fear and shame come out. Now I'm inspiring other people to do the thing, is to do the same thing, and I didn't let go of all of that shit now, so it doesn't hold me back at all. I mean, okay, I don't think fabulous, though, but, but it's like, well, you have to do the hard things, right? You have to talk about, you have to be vulnerable around too well, and

Stuff like when you're in the workplace. So you have to be really, really careful, right? You know where you're approaching your subject, because you, of course, so

You have to also use your intuition and know if you're in a safe space or not, right Patty, like, if you are in a if you are, like, I, I photograph women for the most part, I knew in a safe space to be able to do this, even when I put stuff out on social media, most of my following is women. I mean, most of the comments I get are very positive and, you know, inspirational stuff. If it was different, you know, I might feel differently about putting some things out there, you know, I know I opened myself up to criticism. But if you're in a workplace and it is not a safe space for you, two things, don't open up about that and go find yourself a new workplace. Because who wants to feel it honestly like who wants to feel unsafe in the workplace? And well, she thought that maybe not physical unsafeness, but even even unsafeness, not even a word, even, you know, physically emotional was even harder, though, emotional, right? Emotional, safe. Safety is so important, and that's where body image stuff comes in. So if you work for an organization that doesn't support women wanting to be stronger in their body, or doesn't support, you know, people being vulnerable and talking about things like, we need to find a new place for you to go to so that you can be vulnerable in those in those areas.

I love that. So it's kind of shifted a little bit. So how would you say are some of the ways that we can shift our focus from these perceived physical imperfections to our unique strengths, our skills and our potential, right? You know, let's just shift that and say, you know, we just need to shift a folk that focus right? And what are some of the ways that you think people can do that?

So one of the simplest bipartisan ways is to really start taking the time to listen to our thoughts, right? It's a hard, hard thing to actually listen to what's going on in our head, because it's so automatic, it's so ingrained. But if we can just like, even take like, you know, a few seconds out of each day to listen to a thought and listen to a story that's going on in our head, and ask ourselves, then, is this story even mine? Right? So you have been fed a story Patty that you're not supposed to wear tight leather pants maybe ever, or over a certain age, or over a certain body size, or whatever it is, you know, like if you were able to actually listen in a little bit, because you challenged that a little bit, you did just take them off and where you didn't even, like, you picked them up to begin with. Like, that's challenging, it to begin with, right? But, but you were able to challenge that a little bit, and it's like, whose story was that, is that even something that you truly believe, is it something that you truly believe, that you can't wear tight leather pants? I'd assume it's not. It's a story that you were maybe told by you writing a magazine somewhere, or maybe from your mom, or, you know, something like that. You that You shouldn't be wearing certain things over a certain age, or something like that, right? So the more that we can just again, I know it's it's a simple thing. But it's not an easy thing, but the more that we can listen in to our thoughts and just challenge them a little bit, even if we don't go all the way and buy the leather pants that day, even if we just challenge that thought, it starts enough. It starts a process of challenging even more thoughts, challenging more thoughts, and eventually it's going to create a ripple effect, and you're going to change your whole mindset. So that is, again, a simple, but not a really easy way. But, you know, I mentioned it earlier too, like we have this beautiful thing called social media, and we can curate our social media to be on whatever, whatever it is, you know. And so I always start off with one of the first things I start off with asking people to do is to really curate your social media and take, you know, stop following people. Stop, stop interacting with people who are promoting unhealthy mindset, things you know, or or promoting weight loss, or promoting, you know, promoting like the the diet culture and that kind of stuff. Started following them and start following people who like however you want to authentically live your life. Start following people who are authentically living their lives in big ways on social media. Because the more that you see it, the more that it's visible to you, the more that it's you're going to start being, being able to to change your own mindset around it. So that is a really easy way to start making some small changes. And again, after a while, you're going to see some really big changes,

When we can embrace self acceptance, you know, and our own body positivity. Not only is that going to transform like our personal and professional lives, but it's going to inspire other people around us to do this thing, right? And so I think that, you know, it's kind of like breaking free from these limiting beliefs about our body, right? Yeah. And I love that one of the things that you talk about and live and like, if anybody's following her, and you will be, and I'm sure, and we'll tell you how to do that a second. But like, it really does help me to feel, like, more confident and more successful, right, you know. And I think that that is really important because, like, how many people, when you think about it, like, what they're selling, what they're saying with their voice, right? You know, with their voice is, you know, you don't have to do it the same way. I mean, like, I know for me, like, that's what I say. I tell everybody all the time. You know what I my number one person that I love to work with is actually taking decision maker and a rule breaker. I love Rule Breakers, right? I'm a rule breaker. I love them. But then you gotta ask yourself, if you're not attracting the right people around you, is it because what you're saying and what you're doing may not match up. They may not be in a language,

Or what you're saying is different than the what you're projecting to people in terms of, you know, what you're putting out there in terms of your photos, or the way that you're showing up to events and stuff like that.

Absolutely, you know, one of the things that I have loved watching you do. And I think you started out as 40 over 40. That's what it started out as, right? 40 over 40.

Their project for four years, yes. And it started out as calling 40 over 40, yep.

And then it had a new name. Then it had it changed the name. And I just saw something like social just Yeah. And photos were phenomenal, like, phenomenal,

Yeah, yes, you know. So, so I am a photographer by trade. I also do coaching. I do speaking the really body image is my, is my platform. And so I did a project and where so I have a woman over 40. I am 47 and I think that when we get over that age of 40, right, we kind of stop seeing ourselves, you know, women who look like us represented in media, on in magazines, in, you know, in movies, all the things, right? And so I wanted to create a project that really celebrated women over 40, because what I was seeing from all the women over the age of 40 that I was photographing was how beautiful they were, how successful they were, how much they were, just like killing it in life and doing all these beautiful, beautiful things in life. And I wanted to do something to celebrate women over the age of 40. And so it was. It was all around age at first, and it continued to be around age. But man, I just saw them living such beautiful lives, and I saw the beauty in every single one of them and helped them see the beauty in themselves, maybe for the first time ever. So really, we changed it to embrace your beauty, because it became all about embracing not only our outer beauty, and seeing that each of us, no matter our age or our size or whatever it is, we are so beautiful, but that they were also living such incredibly beautiful life, so to embrace that full beauty of themselves. So, so, yeah, it's been an incredible journey over the past four years. This is my last year doing this particular project. It's just, you know, things run its course, or, you know, things run their course, and this was just the end of it for now, but celebrating and photographing, I mean. Still, women over 40 are still in jam. We're just not doing that particular project. But just, you know, helping women feel seen is like one of the, the greatest gifts, I think, that, as a photographer, you can give to someone.

You know, I really love that too, because, like you said, you're a speaker, so you're using your voice, right? And not only that, but you're coaching, so you're helping them. And how wonderful that as a photographer, while you're doing all that, now you have this gift that you can give them so that they can see it and they can embrace it and then take action, right? You know, like they can say, oh and and now they can take this action. And I think that is just phenomenal. And I really, really love it. So if that's the end of that project, what is next for you now? So I know you mentioned earlier in the show that you want to do this, well, this corporate thing, but what else do you got going on? So tell us

a little bit about what's next for you, you know. So, I mean, of course, you know. I mean, while I'm not doing that project, I'm still photographing women for business and brand, for business and branding, but I'm really focusing a lot more on bodies and business in this coming year, like that is my sole focus, because I know how much our body image plays when it comes to how we are, you know, thriving, either in our own businesses or in corporate. So I'm doing just a lot of things around bodies and business, whether it just be branding photos or boudoir photos to help women, you know, see their bodies in a different way. Or I have some programs that are a combination of both, where we do some body work in your photos, and then we go right into a branding session, so you can kind of get comfortable in your own body, and then just show up like so joyfully in your own body for your brand photos, so you can really be seen as that truly, you know, authentic, real human being that you are. I'm taking bodies in business and doing a lot more speaking. I'm going to create the corporate Wallace program. And something that I'm really excited about is we're going to start doing body acceptance circles at my studio, where women, you know, this is kind of what we talked about. It's going to be a safe space for women to come to for them to be vulnerable, to able to share their body image struggles, so we can seek them out loud, release the shame, release the embarrassment, and find out ways to move on, so we don't have to carry that baggage around in our head anymore. So there'll be, like, intimate circles every single month that I'll be hosting at my studio. So we're just doing a lot more around body image in this coming year. And I'm really excited for for the future of it. I just feel like that's, it's it's me at my soul and at my core, and it's what I think about, it's what I love, and it's what I want to help women with so much, so I'm really excited about the future.

Oh, and you can hear it in your voice. Now, I actually get to see you. For those of you that are watching us on video, you are seeing it as well. If you're hearing us, I'm sure you can hear it in a voice, because I know that I absolutely can. So this is so exciting for me. So if you had one takeaway that you want our listeners to remember about going beyond the mirror, thinking about bodies and business and maybe rewriting that narrative? What would it be?

I think the one takeaway is that our bodies are literally the least interesting things about us, the least interesting things, right? You know what the most interesting things about us are? It's the life that we put in this world. It's a joy that we put in this world. It's all the, you know, all the beautiful things that we're bringing from our heart and our mind into this world, from our soul. And this package that is on the outside that carries everything inside, right? The package on the outside is actually the least important thing about it. So just, you know, no matter what you're doing, I know that we have been conditioned to think that the outside is actually, you know, what people are judging us on, but really, people want to be inspired by what's on the inside and what you're bringing forth into this world. So whatever you're doing, whether you know it's in a it's in a job or networking or speaking, you know, don't worry about what's on the outside, because that is just a holder of all the beauty that you have on the inside that you're putting out to the world.

I love that so much. You know, recently, in an organization that both you and I belong to, I heard somebody talking about being in a room with like minded people, like somebody that was a guest, and they said, it's so great to be in a room with like minded people. And I said, that's kind of a buzz word, right? You know, it's kind of a buzzword, I said, but for me, I really want to be in a room with diverse minded people. I want to be in a room with diverse minded people who have different perspectives, who might make me shift my thinking about, Oh, wow. I never thought about that. And so when I was thinking about it, we were talking about it, and I said, I think for me, I love having conversations with people who are heart centered and diverse minded like, really, that's what I love. If I had a summit, I like being with heart centered but diverse minded people, because we need to shift this stuff. Like, why should we just stay thinking this old way that we actually

Over and over? Yeah, good. Good call, Patty. I really like how you reframe that a lot. And, you know, people who are just open minded also, right? I mean, just about, you know, taking in different perspectives and and I love how you're reframe that so, so good on you. There's that marketing brain. I love it.

But I mean, I was just thinking, so it just kind of goes into what we're talking about today, because people have been conditioned about these type of things, and I love that you're stepping up and and really, it's really kind of interesting, because I know people who talk about body image, but you're the first person that I've ever met who actually coaches on it, because it's like, Oh, that's great that you have it, but who's going to help them, like, embrace that? Like, you know right now, that you know, we know that when we have things, we do what we like to say, you know, personal development, the inner work. This is that too. I mean, you have to do inner work about the outer stuff as well. And I love that you're coaching on that. I think that is just powerful.

Yeah, I know people are going to challenge me on this, but I truly feel like, like getting to the root of our body image stuff is like the most important inner work that we can do, because I truly feel that it, it informs every other thing that we do in the world. And if we we can do all the inner work that we want, but if we still have a hate for our bodies, like, we're never going to be able to, like, fully embrace all the other inner work that we've done, because we're still holding on to something so terribly, you know, heartbreaking inside of us. So I think that the body work is that is the most important inner work that we can do. And

I actually love that. So Kerry Ann, this has been phenomenal. Thank you so much for like, you know, having this conversation to the audience. I'm so glad that you're here with us today. I really do so. Carrie Anne, how can people get a hold of you? I know they're going to want to connect with you. How can they do that?

Oh, I absolutely love that. So for those of you that are listening or watching, just look below. We have all the buttons below for you to just click on them. Find the way that you want to reach out to her. I have to tell you, I've had some super deep conversations. So whether this is an issue for you, are you consider an issue you want to do some work, or, you know, somebody, and maybe you just want to have a conversation on how to support somebody else that you think, I mean, I think that is also a conversation too is like, how do we support other people in this way? Because, you know, it always starts with us, right? So I think that is really important as well. So thank you so much for having this conversation with me. This has been an absolute honor to have you on the show.

Thank you. I'm so grateful that you reached out. Thank you.

So if you enjoyed today's episode, and I'm sure you did. Please like subscribe and review the podcast on your favorite listening platform. And if you haven't checked out the magazine marketing, media and money as well, check it out at www m3 digital man.com till next week, have a phenomenal week, and we will see you soon.