Thank you so much for having me. Patty. I've been looking forward to this.

I've really been looking forward to it too. And I have to tell you, I have really enjoyed all the posting and the sharing and the really being very direct. I love direct and really getting out there and saying what you have to say. There's no way, no one could be thinking, Oh, I'm not exactly sure what she means, right? I love that so much. And so today, I think this is really a conversation worth having. So let's just dive right in. So you talk a lot about eagles, I love that. So what makes high achieving clients or egos stand out from others, and how can coaches adjust their approach and shift their mindset to consistently attract those ideal clients?

I love that. Yeah. So I, when I started building my coaching business, I was a hot mess. I would, I would basically talk to anybody with a pulse and say, you know, Hey, can I coach you? Can I coach you? And it kind of reminds me of that, that children's book about the little duckling that's trying to find its mama, right? Like, do you want to be my client? Do you want to be my client? And the blessing in that was I got to really see a lot of different personalities, people with different backgrounds, people with different aptitudes and talents and skills, and eventually I came up with this idea of the eagle versus the broken wing. So this is really speaking to like, how do you speak to the people that you wish to serve? Are you treating them like the eagles they are, or are you saying, poor baby, oh, you've got a broken wing, oh, you're stuck, oh, you're gonna be stuck forever. Oh, that's horrible. And the issue with that messaging is, and this is why it's more of a message, messaging thing than necessarily a person thing. If, like, I'm married, so if I speak to my husband in a way that's very like, poor baby. Oh, poor you. You know, he plays into that broken wing side of his persona, right when I speak to the eagle in my man, you know, he steps up and he's like, ready to Patty. This morning, he gave me the best pep talk ever, because I'm going to be doing a pretty important masterclass later today, and you know, it was the eagle talking, right? But if you if you know people, you know that they have different sides. So the idea of Eagle messaging is you're speaking to the side of the person that is ambitious, that's hard working, that is achievement oriented, that is willing to face their fears and activate their courage. And what's funny is is you can talk to the same person with different messaging and elicit a very different response. So, you know, I think that's an important thing to understand, because if you do, it means that you can have low ticket products that fit for people with that budget. But if you're working with somebody who's in a premium state, it's going to work for them too, because they're in like that activated mindset that makes them want to pursue their best version of themselves. So whatever investment you're asking for, high ticket, low ticket, it is reflective of how they see themselves. And you want eagles. In your practice, not broken wings.

You know, there's a couple things you said there that I really want to unpack. One, I love what you're saying about like the eagle, and how it's kind of like how we show up. So whatever your pricing is, when you show up as an eagle, and they rise up to be an eagle, wherever the pricing is that's appropriate for them. They're not showing up with a broken wing, right? Because they're excited about that too. So I love that, but I also love when you said that in the beginning. I think, like most entrepreneurs, right, when they get out there, right? You know they're not talking to their right client, the right fit client, mostly because they don't know who it is, and they don't have clarity, right? But you learn really fast how to accept a no and yet is a yes, what is a no and what is a no, not now, because you have to like so you really learn, and you get that discernment of what that really is, and you get the clarity you need. So then you are able to show up as an eagle, which, again, then attracts other eagles, right?

So love that, you know, I really believe that coaching is a leadership role. And the to me, one of the highest forms of leadership is, how do you self lead, right? And how are you showing up and channeling and, you know, Patty, that's why I decided to join your community. Because I was like, gosh, this, this gal's got it going on, like, she's so confident. She, you know you when you stand you, you, you got this kind of laid back swagger that's also really powerful. And it just like, IT projects this confidence. And when you watch, like, if anybody this is your first episode. You got to watch Patty for a while, because the thing is that she doesn't break. She's not just putting it on right. And that's like that to me, is the is the leadership piece of it that allows you to attract more people who are also like, looking at themselves as like, hey, I want to have that spider. Hey, I don't want to break. Hey, I want to, you know, I want to be, you know. But at the same time, you're very authentic. You tell the truth and you and all of that. And I think that when you do that, you attract like people.

You so much. I receive that, and I love it. So I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I'm so thankful you're in my community. You know, I have to tell you, you say this phrase, and I find it very interesting. And the phrase is solving problems of appropriate magnitude, I have to tell you, just that phrase is kind of sexy, even really, you know. So can you share what you mean by that for those that don't get it, and how can coaches identify and target these problems so that they connect with clients who are ready to take action and achieve results.

Love this. So just like every entrepreneur, I've read the books, and they all said, pick a niche. They all said, like, have this specialty. And what I found is a premium coach, somebody who wanted to work with people who were really into the deep work, and they were willing to invest significantly, and I would be able to spend significant time with them, I realized, like, niche not good enough. Like, you can't just stop there at a niche or an ideal avatar. You know, it's what is your ideal avatar facing in their life that ideally they're already throwing time, money and attention at right? That's a problem, and it's an appropriate magnitude, because they've already demonstrated a magnitude of commitment to solving the challenge or achieving the goal. I have this A, B, C, D test that I like to use as my clients on like, are you really working on a problem of appropriate magnitude. And that is, what are you helping your client? Achieve, become, create or do. Achieve become, create or do. And so a PAM is going to pass that test, right? A problem of appropriate magnitude. I call it Pam for short, a PAM is going to help somebody meaningfully achieve something or create something, or become something or do something, and it's way beyond the feeling. Because if it a lot of coaches, one of the biggest mistakes they make is they're like, well, I'll make you feel better. You're gonna feel better than you ever had. And that presents like two problems. One is vague, so people have a hard time making the logical side of the buying decision. You maybe have them on the emotional side, but do you have them on the logical side? And other problem is the day they're grumpy in your program when you sold them on, you will be happier the day they're sad, the day they're grumpy the you know, I look at emotions, they're like weather man. You know, it's nice when it's sunny, but clouds come in and clouds move out. Do you want to be held accountable to somebody's weather patterns? Or would you like to be more deliverable focused? And that's what I advocate for coaches to do, is like, Get clear on the goal.

I think that is so important, and a lot of that comes down to position. Positioning and messaging, right? And I think that messaging is crucial when we're positioning coaching as an investment rather than a rescue. And I know you talk about that as well. Can you share how coaches can reframe their messaging to attract results oriented clients and not those that just want to be rescued?

And I think that's so true. And I think looking back, and I'm sure at some point you experienced this too, and for those that are out there, I'm sure they did as well, but I remember when I would coach and say your session that day was an hour, like getting off the phone at an hour, that it was always like they wanted an hour, 15 minutes, an hour, like you were so caught up because they were a broken wing versus An eagle. And once I stepped into what I knew I was supposed to do and who I was supposed to serve, it was so refreshing and exciting to me when someone would get on the phone for their hour session, and 10 minutes in, they're like, no patty. Just tell me what the next thing I need to do is. And it wasn't about time, right? It was about, no, I'm going to take the rest of that time my energy and like, go do the thing, right, you know. So it wasn't like, oh, well, let's just sit here for an hour. When really, we got to the gist of what we needed to do in the first 10 minutes, good. Go do that, right? You know? And it was like, Wow. It was so eye opening to me, because people are buying your time. They're buying your value right within that time, and how you're getting them the results of why they hired you in the first place. And that was a huge shift, and that happened for me about seven or eight years ago, but I never forgot it, and it was like, Oh my gosh. I just really love it. So sometimes when people will say to me, Well, what does it look like to work with you? Like, are they our sessions or whatever? Which is very telling when someone says that. And really for me, it's like, well, let's make the decision about what it is that you want, and can I get you those results and everything else details, right? You know, that's not where they should be making their decision about whether it's a 60 minutes, 75 minute or 90 minute session. It's really about, what are the results you want to get? And wouldn't you be happy if I could get them for you in half the time? Right? You know, so totally, totally.

And I think you're really hitting on a fear that a lot of coaches have, which is the fear of responsibility, right? I experienced this as well, where I was worried that, like, what if I make this claim that I can help you faster, and something unknown comes out of the woodwork, and it compromises our ability to hit the goal on time? And that gave me significant anxiety. E and here's what's helped, here's what helped. Coach. You're not actually promising the result for the person, because they have to do the work. And what you are committing to, though, is the process. What is the process that you're going to take people through that's inclusive of your sessions, of how you do the follow up notes, how you you know whatever curriculum you might be providing if you do hybrid coaching, which I really recommend. I think that's a good idea. But that anxiety about, like, will they? Won't they? It's kind of, we're right around the new year. It's kind of like, when people make that resolution, I'm gonna lose weight, and then they hire the personal trainer, like, can you imagine if the personal trainer was like, I'm sorry, I don't I don't want to help you, because you might not lose the weight.

I know you're not really gonna do it in the two weeks. You're gonna Yes, right? Yeah. Can you imagine?

But, like, that's what a lot of coaches do, is they, they hedge themselves way out of the game by not being specific, by not having a process, by not defending their process. So you know you were as you were speaking. I was thinking, Gosh, one of the most transformative moments for me was when I found my motto, and my motto is, do what matters. And it's a reminder to make a decision and take action. Do it now. Don't ask how, right like just get into motion, and you'll innately do the learning, and you'll you'll do the consumption and all that. That's almost automatic. But what people don't do is they don't make a decision, and they don't take action, you know, on that decision because of their fears around the responsibility and getting specific.

It's really important, because I think, for me, you know, everything is about lifestyle. So when people say, Well, what makes you different, right? How many times do we get asked that, well, what makes you different than, you know, the 500 other coaches or consultants, whatever you know, and it's like, well, you know, I start with lifestyle. I always say, let me help you design the lifestyle you want to live, and then we'll build a business that supports that lifestyle, not the other way around, right? So that everything you do brings you joy, right, and feeds your soul, which is what is so important to me and for the people that I attract, right? That is what is important to them. But do what matters. Because I think a lot of times people get caught up in the doing. What does this book tell me to do? What is this group tell me to do? What does this thing tell me to do? And it's like you need to get off the do train, right? You know, and really realize you do need to do but you need to do what matters. And I love that that's your motto, because I think it really speaks very quickly to truth of what is really necessary. So in that messaging, I think that is really great. But Amanda, I think many coaches feel obligated to rescue in air quotes, right? Clients who really may not be ready for coaching, right? And what mindset shifts or strategies can help them confidently to say no to clients who aren't the right fit, like that was hard for me a long, long time ago. I've gotten really, really good at it, right? Who wants to work with clients that are not the right fit clients? Right? Oh, that is just. But what can you say to the people who want to the coaches who feel obligated to rescue those clients?

I would say number one, find your outlet, right? If you have this passion to give back, then volunteer you know, join a non profit, join a board like, do something proactive, and don't sacrifice your business on the altar of trying to be liked and likable by everyone. Like, that's, that's just, I'd say, if you really, really want to help, go serve. Like, actually go to a soup kitchen, you know, and stop conflating your identity as somebody who helps with your business architecture, you know. I'll tell you an actual tactical thing that saved my hat duty, which was I established a community standard. And all a community standard is, is it's a kind of a code of culture, you know? It's what are the normal behaviors of this organization? And when I sat down, I not only put it in my contracts, I put it in the beginning of all my programs. I put it in my onboarding to just say, like, you will encounter frustration, and here's how we deal with it, you can get mad. You're just not allowed to be mean. And I actually put into words a community standard. And boy, that helped me so much during the sales process, because if people were already breaking with that standard, and then I would ask a question or guide us back to the standard, and they insisted on living outside. Boy, that was an easy decision, you know. And here's the language, I don't feel that we're a fit right now, right? Give them the out of the timing, and I think you'll find, like very few people will argue with you, right? Because actually paying money is painful, no matter how much money some. Is spending it activates the same receptors in the brain as if you physically hurt yourself. So if you give somebody an out to not make the decision by saying, I don't feel this is a fit right now, then they're gonna be like, okay, you know, it's almost like you're serving them the objection for them so that they can move forward. And it's true, right? Like I often think, not like this, not right now, you know, and that helps me a lot. The last thing I'll say here, too, is the cost of a bad client is at least five times the sale, at least.

You know, when you think about it, really we want to be the go to expert, right? And that go to expert means that if you're not the right fit, I'm going to say that too. And then if we introduce you to somebody that is the right fit for you right now, and maybe you'll come back later, and maybe you won't, but that's okay. That's what's so beautiful about what we do, like I only want to serve the people I know I was meant to serve, and the rest of it is philanthropy, and I love that, and it took me a long time for me to get there as well, early on and serendipity is such a beautiful thing. And I remember one time I was struggling sleeping, and I just, no matter what I did, I just couldn't sleep at night. And I went to get help for that. And one of the things that came up was that before I closed for the day, I always looked at my calendar for the next day, so I was working in my sleep. Oh, wow. But here's what the side benefit of that was, the serendipity part is, I was like, oh, so that cured that. And here's what else it did. It made me realize that when I got up in the morning, and that's what they told me to do, don't look at your calendar till you wake up in the morning. So when I woke up in the morning, I was having coffee, I would look at my calendar and what would happen is sometimes I would look at my calendar and I'd be like, yay. I'd be all excited. And then sometimes I'd look at my calendar and be like, right? And I didn't realize that, and all of a sudden that was the wake up call for me that I don't want to ever work with anybody, that when I see their name in my calendar, my mind goes right. I only want to have people on my calendar that make me feel joy that I'm working with them. So that was kind of a serendipitous thing. So I found the right clients and got to sleep at night, right? You know, both those things got to happen. Go figure. I didn't realize it until then that I was sometimes, for lack of a better word, rescuing people, because I knew I could help them. They just weren't ready. And you can't do it for them, right? You could walk totally with them. You cannot do it for them. It's like, go into the gym. Can't hire somebody do your push ups for you, right? You know, well, and you know, and I love that you teach them.

And I have, like, a real aversion to people wasting money. I don't know what it is like even even, you know, if somebody's making an investment, even at our lowest ticket, I'm like, You're conscious about this, right? You're making a decision about this, right? And what I always found was it was, is generally kind of a timing issue, if not, like, a personality chemistry issue. And like, those things are so solvable, but like, develop an aversion to people wasting their time and money, because if you do that, you can serve really powerfully. When you realize, oh my gosh, I can really help you, and you're going to advocate for them to step into the program. But if you're like, you know, this is going to be one of those people that's draining all the time and the energy, and you're wasting their money. It just it makes it such an easier conversation.

Now I hear you. Okay, so let's talk about those high achieving clients, right? Yeah. So once you have a high achieving client, you role, right? So they say, yes, they step into it. What strategies can coaches use to structure their offerings and create transformative experiences that will ensure client retention and continued success.

I love it. The first thing that came to my mind is actually book a meeting from a meeting, right? So I have this little thing called bam, fam. So when you're working with somebody who is a high achiever. You're like, I don't know, 3% of their attention span, you know, even if they've invested a ton of money, because, you know, really high achieving people, they got the family, they got the job, they got the business, they got, you know, they got all these things cooking. So whatever you can do to reduce the anxiety attached to being in a coaching relationship, not by saying they're their poor baby, literally just set the anticipation and the expectation of what happens next. So from the enrollment call, amazing. We're going to do your welcome call. Let's schedule that for this time, this time. Here's what we're going to do in that meeting. Right? That's all you have to do. And then they get to that meeting, and it's like, amazing. We're going to do your first coaching session. We've got the regular time set for Thursdays, at 1pm that still works for you. Oh no, I forgot. I'm going on a vacation. No worries. When's your vacation? By dealing with those little logistical things way up front and having the plan on the calendar of what they can anticipate is going to happen next. So, so important, but it's also really important that I almost think of it like you're stringing a necklace right of beads or pearls, and it's like, okay, in the last session, we did this, so now we're going to continue to that, and in the next session, we're going to do that, sound good, and you're getting that enrollment the whole time. I found by having simply that method, right? Just that approach with people I've had coaching clients go on into four years of renewals, and it's just because there was always something next that we were going to work on, and they could trust and rely on me to facilitate that process with them.

Searcher. Okay, so let's talk about one of my favorite things, storytelling. So how would you say that storytelling and social proof help coaches to effectively demonstrate the value of their services and build trust with respective clients, but that are aligned with their vision, right? So they're the right ones.

Oh yeah, there's a there's a lot there. I know when I first heard that you're supposed to use story to convert people, I went into a panic. Because I go into a panic a lot. I don't know if you've noticed that, but I went into a panic because I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so boring, you know, like I was so worried that where, you know, I grew up in a really small town who can relate to that. I grew up in the Arctic of Canada who can relate to that. I, you know, I haven't had any, like, crazy medical diagnoses that I survived. I've never been in an insane car accident, right? So I was just going through, like, all the reasons why my stories suck. But then I heard Bo Eason at a seminar. And if you don't know him, look him up on Instagram. He's fabulous. He teaches stage presence and storytelling. And he said this one thing, and it just unlocked storytelling for me forever. He said, It's not when somebody listens to your story, they are conjuring visions of their own experience. So when I say I grew up in a small town, you are probably thinking of a small town you're familiar with. So now we're relating, right? I can also speak to the human experience of loneliness. So yeah, there were the statistics and the facts and the logic of what you know when I was lonely. But when I start conjuring that story, you're reflecting on that time you felt really lonely, or you felt like you were rejected, and when I realized that those, those are the projections that are going on, they're yours, they're not mine, all the story does is it's almost like this Flint spark. So the best stories are going to really conjure something almost like turning on a project projector in the mind of your listener. So what does that have to do with business? Everything, because everything because, you know, I love the commercial. What's in your wallet? Have you heard that one? Right? And I think it's like Chase or something. Don't come after me. We've got the wrong credit card company, but it's asking kind of a fun question, What's in your wallet? As in, we all get to decide what goes in and comes out of our wallet. So if we're not activated in our own emotions, if we're not relating to the person that we're buying from, I think we've all probably had that experience where someone was, like, really pushy, took no time with us, was trying to push us into a sale. And what do we do with our wallet? Snap it close, right? But when you're with somebody who really cares, you know, like, I went shopping with my grandmother on a trip in Italy a few years ago, and the ladies in that shop, they were connecting and relating, even with broken English and everything. And I spent so much money in that boutique because I was like, I want to give. I want to give my money and my business, you know, and I'm getting something I really like, and it's like that story that we're actually weaving together. So in terms of social proof, my favorite way to share social proof is to actually tell a story of what somebody was facing when they came to me, and then what we did right, respecting confidentiality, but like the top three bullets, what did we do together and then what was the new outcome? So you can kind of think of it as like a before and after that. Social Proof can help so much, because, again, you're activating the projector in somebody's brain and they're thinking, oh my gosh, you know this, I can see myself in this movie, right? And that's the role of social proof.

And you do that really, really well, too. I've always really enjoyed that, and I think that this is important, because. Storytelling and, you know, social proof, they just go together. But I have to tell you, when I say this to people, they're like, really patty. It was a struggle for me, and it still doesn't come easy, so it's not a struggle anymore. But when I first became a speaker, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to tell stories. And what happens is, like, in case anybody surprise here, I'm kind of wordy, and so I want to paint that, you know, paint everything, the picture and the trees and everything, because I feel like that's important. And I had to learn early on that you could tell a story, and people are leaning in and they're relating to the story. But if you keep going and going and going, pretty soon they don't, because it's not their story anymore, like what you just said, right? So I had to learn that. And this is I don't usually say this kind of stuff, but somebody says something to me once that I have to tell you, if I didn't have a pretty healthy ego at that point, it could have wiped me out. But I actually had somebody say to me, are you ready for this? She said to me, I was learning storytelling as a speaker. I'd only been speaking like six months. And she said, Patty, here's something you need to know. She said it is, are you ready disrespectful for you to take 10 minutes to say something that you should have been able to say in five Wow, is that like? I mean, it could have wiped me out, and it did kind of set me back for a minute. I had to really practice good manners by not giving a response that probably wasn't the appropriate one in the moment. But I have to tell you, I've never forgotten it either, though, and whenever I share it, people are like, really? Somebody said that. I'm like, Yes, can you believe that? But what's kind of interesting is that person was a coach, and I have never seen her again, so I don't get Sheila coaches anymore, and I don't know why, but with that said, I mean, really, I had to learn that to be able to say, okay, Patty, when you're telling a story. What's the point of the story, really? And so it is a skill. It is a skill, and studio just naturals at it. I am not one of them. I'm not one of those people. I have to really work at it. I'm a lot better than I was. You are very, very good at it. Amanda, I have to tell you, but I do think it is very important. And I feel like it is something that if somebody struggles with, they actually should, even though I hate saying the worksheet that is something they want to get help with, right? And, yeah,

I really agree. I mean, like I look at my own ability. If I have a chemical engineering degree, my aptitude is very much process systems and process more please, right? And so for me, when I first started telling stories, they were all chronological. I had to give all of the details, because that's what a person should do. But then I also had very similar advice about brevity. When I was in corporate America that, you know, and it was the same attitude, it's disrespectful to waste people's time. You need to have really short emails. And one of the first things that I had to learn was like, Yeah, but real, authentic relationships aren't like that, you know, they they do bob and weave. And, you know, I've learned a lot of techniques over the years. One of my favorites is this, when you're writing your story, write it chronologically, because that's how you probably think that like, that's just how it comes out, right? But then find the most dramatic and exciting moment and make it the first line. So this is called a double oh seven trick, and I learned it from Greg Clemens, who was the founder of golden hippo. He's done, like, billions of dollars of direct response sales writing. And this the double oh seven franchise just keeps going and going and going and going and basically, the reason is, every double oh seven movie opens with an intense action scene, so it hooks you right at the beginning. If you look at most movies, it's like people sitting I literally saw a movie the other day where people were sitting around the breakfast table, slow pan in from the farm, you know. And it's like this really low dopamine experience, whereas double A seven, we start right in the action. So you really play with the order of what you're telling but what I like to do is get it out chronologically first.

Actually, that's really, really good. So thinking about that, what are the tools or techniques or platforms do you recommend for streamlining lead generation? I know when you talk about that, that's what we're talking about. And Client Onboarding to create a, let's say, a seamless experience for both the coach and the client.

Yeah, right now, my favorite tool in the marketplace is go high level, and I have a white label of it. You can be an agency or where you can sell a white labeled version of the software. And I do that because I help so many people with their process, and it gives them kind of a one click Set. Up for a lot of things. However, I would just recommend the tool anyway, so you don't have to sign up under somebody else. You can go straight to the source of go high level if you want to. You can do a basic package of like $97 or something like that. And then, you know, it's it's more limited. Now, one of the advantages of working with somebody that's in an agency, and you can ask these questions, tell them I sent you is what features of go high level are unlocked for the price, right? And just get that really clear, what I chose to do with my weight label is, I was like, I'm giving you what go high level sells for 297, for 97 right? So, but that's just a choice that I made, and like lots of different agency owners will have different things. So just ask the question, like, what's locked is the question you want to ask these important

Though, because I just transitioned over to go high level myself. Hey guys, I have my own agency, but I think that a lot of times when people go out there and they hear about a great tool, they hear about all this other stuff, and because of that, they just don't know how to make the decision of what's the best one for them. So I love that right there. You kind of broke down a few things so people would know, yes, you don't have to do all this. You can just do this again when you're ready. You can do that, and then have a good coach that can be there to help. So like, literally, you can present your answer to that. Kind of went with everything else that you have said, too, and it's so you Amanda, and I love that. So, yeah,

I would, you know, there's one other tool that I would really, really recommend, and that is a word processor, you know, like Google Drive. Write all of your emails. You know, your onboarding email, your introduction email, your weekly reviews, your like, whatever is gonna happen more than five times, write it in a Google Doc, is what I would recommend, and have a folder structure. You know, I like Google Drive. I mean, you could do one note, you could do word, you could do, you know, Unix, whatever. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that you have the source information. Because over the years, I have switched, you know, I did go high level, but a couple years ago, I was all active campaign, and then before that, I was all Kajabi, and, you know, I've tested Click Funnels, and, like I

I have, well, there's an ebb and flow when it comes to tools. I think, right? You know that it's true. I think was the GHL the winner time, except Click Funnels. And I do think that is really important. I also think that right now it is very important. I love doing those things and having my VA create an SOP for everything you do, right? But now more than ever, I think is more important, because if you do it, like I said, more than five times you can create a custom GPT for that right now, you know. And that is where AI is a great tool, right? You know, totally you over and over again. I think is really, really important. Now, that's not what our show is about this time and stuff, though, but I have to tell you, that is really, really a good tool that she just said, it's really a good practice, whether you're ready for custom gpts, whether you're using AI or not, and how are you using it? Just get in that habit to do it, and what you do, it'll be really, really easy,

Totally.

So let's talk about niching. We talked about it a little bit early on. So for coaches who are hesitant to niche down right, how do you think that they can identify who their ideal audience is and build a focused practice without feeling boxed in or limited or, you know, oh my gosh, right, you know, but when they're hesitant, and I think that sometimes people are PR, I have to tell you, I also think that if somebody's at that point, they could, you know, Coaches have coaches. I always have at least two right, you know, and a lot of times I think if this is something that somebody is thinking about and they are hesitant, you know, maybe getting coached on that themselves is probably a good thing. But what would you say they can how can they identify who their targeted audience is? But they really need to really figure out, like, how to not feel like, Oh, I'm leaving money on the table and all that kind of stuff, right?

And you talk about that a lot in that's why I always listen to your podcast. You know, you have a podcast who everybody the you know, you could look below, and we'll have a button for that for you, but the Amanda Kaufman show, her podcast, is phenomenal, and she kind of goes into depth on this too, so you're going to want to check that out, and as long as I'm talking about that, she also has a book coaching leads Made Easy book, and we're going to have a link to that too. And I'm going to tell you those two things I really love them. Like when I sat down to read the book, I read it from cover to cover, like I sat down in one sitting and read it from cover to cover. I thought it was phenomenal, right? Really, really phenomenal. And I have to tell you, there are eight now, eight podcasts. I mean, I was in a podcast like almost every day, right? I have eight that I never miss an episode, right? You know, you know, I hope some of you that are listening. Mine is one of those for you too. But with that, with that said, there's like, eight, and yours is one of them. So I always listen to your podcast. I love it and stuff. So I'm going to recommend everybody dear too. So like, we're talking about some great stuff here, I know when you're talking about, like, high achieving, premium stuff. We always want more information, right? We always want more information. We want to go deeper. So those are two places that you can do that. But with that said, Amanda, what trends or shifts Do you see shaping the future of the coaching industry, and how can coaches position themselves to thrive in this ever evolving landscape that we're in.

Oh my gosh, I love first of all, thank you very much for the recommendations on the book and the podcast. You may be a little misty. I'm so glad you enjoy them. The trends. I got excited about that question too, because literally just 24 hours ago, sitting on my laptop looking at Google Trends and, you know, doing more market research, and I just had a coffee with a girlfriend, and here's my take, here's my take on the future Amanda's prediction. So come back a year from now and see if I'm right. But I think that the coaching industry, I'm bullish on it. I think that there is huge opportunity right now, and I think it's changing from what it was. So I think a few years ago, it was very information LED. Let me show you how, how, how, how, how to do this and how to do that. And the issue is our friend, GPT, chat, GPT, right? And Claude, or whatever tool you're using now, your Google, they've actually been sweeping the number of searches. So Google Search number has actually gone down because more people are going to chat GPT, right, and having a full conversational dialog where it's searching the internet and getting their answers.

And I think voice devices, too are taking away from Google as

Well, totally. So I remember when chatgpt came out a couple years ago. Guess how I reacted? Panic, right? Because I was like, Okay, well, what's the point of having a coach? Because chat G P T, can just give you the steps. Chat G P T, can just write this off.

I hear it so much, and if I had $1 for every times I heard somebody say it and say that, it's like, really? Let's like, kind of you. Know, yes.

So my first reaction was 1,000% panic, right? I would have had to give you $1 but I decided do what matters. I decided I was like, Look, this is not going away. I decided that I was just gonna open a tab and, like, see if I could use it somehow. It has become the fourth employee of my business. Okay, it works so hard for me, and you can't just, like, not do your business and have AI, which I think was my fear. It was that, you know, like, Oh, we're so replaceable now. And what I realized, and here's my prediction, humans really crave human connection like we need it. And I've always believed that coaching is as much a social contract as it is anything else. And so I think the need for real leadership, you know, brave leadership, courageous leadership, is going to be more and more and more over the next five years. I think accountability and follow through are going to become a more important aspect of coaching. I actually heard this earlier this year from a fellow coach. He's very high performing. He said, People invest in your standards. And I was like, I really believe that because my best clients, they're modeling a lot of the things that I do. They're not trying to be me, but the pieces that work for them in their life, they're like, modeling the things that I'm doing. So I realized I'm like, Oh my gosh, self leadership and coaching is going to be non negotiable. I think the other thing that's going to happen, and is happening, is that, from a marketing perspective and a sales perspective, you will need to speak very directly to your ideal client, and it needs to be all about the trust you have together. So I think we're going to see a lot more hyper nicheing, and we're gonna see a lot more kind of boutique experiences versus, you know, a couple years ago, everything was like these massive programs. So I think there's a huge amount of opportunity, but you as the coach, need to be willing to step up to the plate. And I think the other thing is that there's a lot of unknowns that no one can know, so your ability to navigate uncertainty is going to be one of the biggest things your clients are going to come to you for.

You know, I think it's like, says a lot like, I'm in marketing, you're in marketing. I think one of the big things that's really happening now as we niche down, for me, is really surrounding myself and building my business through collaboration, right? And I feel like we have an abundant mindset, and if really it's all about serving our client, bringing in other people, even if they overlap and do what we do, I have to tell you, my favorite collaboration partner is somebody who does overlap, because then they get it and they get here when I'm telling them what I'm bringing them in for with my client, like I know that they get it. And I think that that philosophy of collaboration is so important, and it's even more important now, and I love it when I see it. So yes, I think really thinking about people who do what you do, but how do they serve in a different way is really important. Because remember back in the day, people used to say, Oh, well, I like networking or being part of a community of like minded people? Well, that's kind of nice, but actually, times have changed, and for me, what I am looking for and what the culture that I am building is that I want to be a part of a heart centered, diverse minded group, right? I love that. When people tell me something, I'm like, Oh, that's a different perspective, or they shift my perspective, or shift my thoughts, so I'm thinking about something differently. I love that. You know, it's kind of like when people would say, Oh, I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. Well, of course not, but I want to be in the room with people who are going to shift, right and help me to change my perspective, because that's what's going to help me to grow help me to grow and move forward. And it's exciting to be in a room that conversation is so much more dynamic. So I remember when you and I met for coffee, man, I got to tell you we were together like 40 minutes, but that 40 minutes was so dynamic and enriching and deep. I was like, Oh, yes, you have to come on my podcast, because we get it right. We get and I really, really love that. And like I said, I love your podcast, your book, and all the things and stuff though. So we were going to reflect on your journey. Amanda, what's one piece of advice that you would give to coaches who are striving to create more meaningful connections and sustainable success in their practice, like, what would you tell them?

You know, I was such a socially awkward person I maybe still am in some ways, but my fear really ruled me in the early days of this business, I only had eight names on a post it of people that I deigned to ask, like, Would you like to have a complimentary session? And I got to tell you, my heart was leaping out of my chest with every request that I made. So I understand social anxiety. It's also why sales is one of the top paid roles in an organization is because that's just human. We don't want to be rejected. You know, social risk is is arguably one of the the most painful things that we experience in our lives. So all of that to say, I would tell myself early on, Hey girl, hey, you get to become a popular girl. You finally get to be a popular girl, and you're allowed to use systems to help you. Because I had this belief that that, you know, I had to memorize everybody's name, the name of their dog, their birthday, their anniversary, exactly what their preferences were on pizza, and if I didn't have, like, all of those things at the top of my mind, then I then I wasn't worthy of a relationship with that person. That's kind of a crazy standard, you know, to to hold yourself to, and the truth is, your favorite people, you do know the name of their dog, you. Do know the the preferences on pizza, but like, coaching is a relationship sport, and it's okay to use a spreadsheet or a click up or a notion, whatever your thing is, it's or CRM, it's okay to use a system to remind you to reach out, you know? And for me, it's like, I literally see a name, and I'm like, right? The last thing we talked about was this, I'm going to ask them how that's going right or right. They told me that they were about to launch that book. The book launch went right. And why didn't I hear from them? Also, what? Who's doing their marketing? That's what I want to know. But the point is, you just need the little prompt and the encouragement you are, the popular you're, you know, I had a lot of male sales coaches, and one of the things they said is, you know, you need to channel the persona of the hottest girl in the bar so you can talk to anybody, right? And everybody wants to talk to you. And I'm like, that's a I don't think I would ever hear that in a female entrepreneurship group, but I'm gonna take that one to the bank, you know, be the hottest girl in the bar all the way. Used to be popular, you know. And like, if somebody does not choose you, Pikachu, don't take it personally. They just don't know you yet.

Exactly. I love that. So, Amanda, we talked about your podcast. Listen to that everybody and her book. And I have to tell you, her book is less than $5 like, really, like less than $5 that's $5 she'll ever spend. But she also came with a gift. She also came with a gift. So tell us a little bit about this thrive and scale expert blueprint that you gave as a gift for everybody, whether you're watching or listening. Look below. There's a button for you to get that really easy too, but tell us a little bit about it. Amanda,

I love to help people build a business that they authentically thrive in. That's a huge priority of mine. It's like, yes, be profitable, but also like, be fulfilled and in enjoyment overall with what you do. I mean, we always have those little things that are annoying, but I want you to love what you do. So the Thrive and skill blueprint is my answer, my mathematical answer to, how do you build a profitable coaching business without going broke, without feeling like you never have enough time. And I even touch on what to do when you don't have a social media following, or you don't have an email list, you really haven't started your marketing, it kind of meets you there. And the thing about this PDF, what actually inspired it is, I don't know about you, but I feel like everybody's asking me to watch a master class these days, and I'm just like, a little over it, like, I kind of want to know that it's going to be a good use of time to spend hours with you. And so I've moved to doing a lot more lead magnets that are in the written format, because you can get a lot of the same information across and and all of that in the written format. So it is kind of like a master class. And I think the pitch at the end is just, if you want to contact for more information. So it's very, very light touch with contact information. That's it. But it's, it's literally like, what would I cover in a detailed workshop masterclass, if I was, if the whole goal was you were going to walk out with your strategic blueprint for a thriving premium coaching business.

Wow, I love that, and I actually downloaded it, of course. So So Amanda, how can people get a hold of you? So I'm pretty sure that on your website you have all your social and all that kind of stuff. So how would people connect with you? Because I know that they're going to want to

The best place to find me is Facebook. So you can go to facebook.com/chat with Amanda Kaufman, and that'll take you right to my profile page. So let's just start there. Let's be friends. I post multiple times a day there, so you'll get a real sense of who I am and what I'm about, and it'll lead you all the other places

That is beautiful. Thank you so much, Amanda, for being here with me. This has been phenomenal. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for being so generous with your brilliance as always. So thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me. Patty, this was so fun. Thank

you. It really was fun. And to my audience, thank you so much for spending another morning with me. It's been a pleasure to have you. I hope you all have a phenomenal week. But in the meantime, if you enjoyed today's episode, and I am sure that you did, please like, subscribe, share and review the podcast on your favorite listening platform, and if you want more brilliant content, check out the magazine, the marketing media Money magazine at m3digitalmag.com until next week. Have a phenomenal week. Bye. Now.