MMAM 135 | Follow-Up

Power-Up Your Follow-Up For More Clients And Sales With Debbie Hoffman (Episode 135)

Patty Farmerpodcast

If you do your follow-up right, it will lead to sales. This is all about presenting yourself to other people in the most authentic way possible, not in a salesy approach that only pushes them away. Exploring this topic even further with Patty Farmer is Debbie Hoffman, Follow-Up Expert and Founder of Power Up Your Follow-Up. Debbie presents the important components of her follow-up system focused on serving the other person to build a meaningful connection and unlock the power of reciprocity. She also shares the best questions to ask, the appropriate time to start talking about sales in the middle of a conversation, and how to determine if a prospect partner is the right fit for your goals.

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About Debbie Hoffman

MMAM 135 | Follow-UpDebbie Hoffman is a heart-centered sales & follow-up expert, speaker, and founder of “Power-Up! Your Follow-Up.” She works with relationship driven entrepreneurs, coaches, and network marketers who are letting potential clients and income slip through the cracks because they don’t have a reliable sales & follow-up system in place. Her proven step-by-step formula supports them to have more ideal clients saying “yes” to working with them.

After 20 years of working on Wall Street as a Managing Director, with over $25 billion in sales, Debbie took her organizational skills (and an extraordinary ability to connect with people) and created multiple six-figure businesses. In addition, Debbie had tremendous success as a Network Marketer, having built an international team of several thousand consultants. She’s also a best-selling author. Her mission is to support entrepreneurs to share their gifts and get their message out in a big way so they can create the impact they’re here to make.

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Power-Up Your Follow-Up For More Clients And Sales With Debbie Hoffman

I'm looking forward to sharing this industry expert with you. I'm excited because we're talking about one of my favorite topics. We're talking about follow-up. Some of you have probably heard the cliché, “The fortune is in the follow-up,” but we're not going to talk about that. What we're going to talk about is how to power up your follow-up, which is even more important.

Let me tell you a little bit about our guest. Debbie Hoffman is a heart-centered sales and follow-up expert, speaker, and Founder of Power Up Your Follow-Up. She works with relationship-driven entrepreneurs, coaches, and network marketers who are letting potential clients and income slip through the cracks because they don't have a reliable sales and follow-up system in place. Her proven step-by-step formula supports them to have more ideal clients saying yes to working with them.

After twenty years of working on Wall Street as a managing director with over $25 billion in sales, Debbie took her organizational skills and an extraordinary ability to connect with people and created multiple six-figure businesses. Her mission is to support entrepreneurs to share their gifts and to get their message out in a big way so they can create the impact they're here to make. Thank you so much for being here with me, Debbie.

It is so great to be here with you. Thank you so much for having me.

You're so welcome. I'm excited because I feel like it is all about the follow-up. Everybody likes to talk about sales. If you do your follow-up right, it will lead to sales but it is important to nail the follow-up. It will make sales so much easier as well as pretty much everything. If you do your follow-up right, it will make your relationships better, which will make repeat sales even better. Let's talk about that. You have a wealth of knowledge about follow-up and sales. I know that you like to talk about how to network in a more authentic way that builds deep and profitable connections. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

I would love to. Over the years, I built my businesses through networking. What I would see all the time or most of the time is that people were going to networking events looking for clients. You're probably thinking, “I was going to networking events looking for clients,” but when you go looking for clients to sell your stuff to people there, they feel it. They put up a wall. When you've been to an event, and someone is trying to sell to you, you recoil and step back. Your guard goes up, and your heart closes down. You're like, “Get me out of here.”

When I talk about authentic networking and showing up in a more authentic way, it's showing up in service in a way where you're wanting to help people. You're looking for ways to help people and support them. You're getting curious, asking questions, and finding out what resources people need, what support they need, and what they're looking to do next in their business that you might be able to help them with.

That creates a whole different energy. My clients hated networking before. When I shared this new approach with them, they were like, “I love helping people. I can show up at these networking events, have fun, and see how I can support people.” What ends up happening is that people's guard comes down. Their hearts open, and then they're listening to you from a different place, not from a guarded place. If they're interested in what you have to offer, they're going to say, “I want to talk to you about what you offer because I want to learn about it for me. I could use your help.”

When somebody asked the proverbial networking question, “What do you do?” immediately, people go into sales mode. If you are having a conversation with them, they are pretty much waiting for you to take a pause so they can talk. They're not even listening. When you have authentic conversations, and you actively listen and flip the switch on that, it is a much more dynamic conversation.

To tell you the truth, I have always believed that sales are service. If it's done right, sales are service for sure. Could you share with us a couple of questions? Let's try to see if we can get people away from, “What do you do?” What are a few things that you could add to that plot? What are a few questions you would suggest people use instead?

The first thing when we're talking about authentic networking is to always ask. I recommend you always ask the other person first. Let them speak first because you will learn so much about them when they're speaking. 1) You can be thinking of how you can support them. 2) If they have a need and you have a solution, you're not going to sell to them but you're going to tweak your response about what you do to more accurately fit their needs.

It's strategic in a way but from a heart-centered place, if that makes sense. Even if they say, “Tell me about what you do,” I deflect it back, “I would love to share more about what I do but I want to hear about you first.” I bring the conversation right back to them because I don't want to talk first for all those reasons plus more. I want to be generous. I want them to know that I'm not the normal person that they're meeting at these events who's trying to sell them. I'm curious. I'm asking lots of questions.

One of your questions to me is what questions to ask. I always first love to ask instead of saying, “What do you do?” That's what everybody says. I say, “Who do you serve? How do you support them?” It's a different way. It's a more heart-centered way to ask the same question. It flips the switch for them. It's like, “They're not asking me the same stupid question about what I do.”

I find out, “What do you love the most about your business? What's the hardest part for you?” That helps create an opening of some way that I can help them, support them, and share a resource that might be able to help them with that struggle. I asked them, “What do you have going on the next few months where I can support you?” If there's a good fit if I like them, and energetically it feels good, I'm not going to say that to somebody where I don't feel we're a good fit.

That makes sense. A lot of times, I have found that when you ask someone who they serve, now it's about them and not about the person who's answering the questions because when you say, “What do you do?” it's all about them. When you say, “Who do you serve?” it's all about the people that they serve. It's a great opportunity to think about when you're listening to them. Maybe you serve them too. If you do, now there's a great conversation to be talking about collaboration although not right at that moment but it is something that you can put in your mind. What are you listening for? It's good to know what to say and what questions to ask. Can you tell us a little about that?

I realized I wanted to add to something I said earlier about not going to networking events looking for clients. If you're going there, I recommend you go there looking for these partners and those people you can collaborate with because you're going to end up with many more referrals and clients when you work with power partners or JV partners depending on where you are in your business.

It's all about finding out if they serve a similar client and if they have similar values, beliefs, philosophies, and ways. I had a woman reach out to me from LinkedIn. She thought we could be a good fit. Energetically, there was no way. I didn't feel it. I'm not going to pursue the relationship. It has to be a good fit energetically. It has to be a good fit in terms of their ideal clients and who they're talking to all day because you want to be able to have a reciprocal relationship where you're referring people to them and they're referring people to you.

MMAM 135 | Follow-Up

Follow-Up: When pursuing a business relationship, they have to be a good fit energetically. You want to have a reciprocal relationship with them.

I agree with that too because as a marketing and media strategist, I specialize in working with women. It doesn't mean I don't work with men but I market to women, and the right men show up. That's what I like to say but with that said, when I'm having a conversation, I always love to ask this not in the beginning but as we're having a conversation. I always like to know, “Do you specialize in certain industries?” If somebody says to me, “I work mostly with men,” they're probably not my partner for sure. I always want to know that.

Since we're talking about questions, it's always thinking about why are you asking them. Most people network in more than one place. I always like to say, “Is this your first time here? Is this someplace that you frequent a lot?” If they say, “I love this networking group,” or whatever event you're at, I always like to ask them, “Why is this so wonderful?” They will tell you why. If you could recognize from their answers that they are somebody who's paying attention, it's a great time for me to ask them, “Where else do you network?” If they're paying attention, don't we want to know where else they network?

I love this. It's so funny because this is exactly what I teach. That's why we love each other so much because we're on the same page. I haven't gone into physical networking. I went to an event for the first time in three years. I've been doing all my networking online but I'm always coming up with a way to help people. I'll ask that question, “Have you been here before? Is this your first time? Do you like to network? Are you looking for other events and places to network?” They always would say yes.

I was the networking queen at the time. I would say, “There's this amazing group. You will love these people. Would you like me to make an email introduction to the woman who hosts the group?” This was within the first two minutes. I'm already trying to help them. They're falling in love with me. That's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because that's who I am. Right away, it creates that trust and rapport, “This woman is so generous. She hasn't even told me what she does yet, and she's already trying to help me.” I love that you brought that up.

A lot of times, when people go to events, I have seen this so many times. People try to shove their business cards in your face in the first two minutes. One of the things that I have noticed is people get so focused on referrals and going someplace to try to get a referral. I have to tell you that in my experience, they don't even know me well enough. You don't even know each other well enough to be able to give a referral. It probably won't be that great a referral unless they happen to have somebody say, “I'm looking for whatever.”

I love for people to do introductions like what you were talking about. To me, the right introduction done in the right way is the gift that keeps on giving. It's better. I do very intentional introductions for that reason. You're giving to them in the very beginning, which sets you up. You and I are so on the same page. This isn't what I do. It's not what I teach. It's what I personally do. I always go to an event with something to give. In my head, I'm already thinking about what could I do for that other person.

I have the show. When people ask me, “This is why I'm coming. What about you?” it's easy for me to be able to say, “I love coming to events looking for the right guests for my show.” All of a sudden, we're not talking about the weather or their kids because now they want to share with me the value they bring to the marketplace because they might want me to invite them on to my show. When you start asking them questions, in their minds, you're asking them those questions to see if they're the right fit. They never mind answering the question.

That has worked for me well. It could be an introduction to another group or another person that might be a great collaboration partner for them. Their industries mesh or whatever the case may be but this is the time to be asking questions. Here's leading to my question. When you serve them first right there, now when they ask about you, the power of reciprocity is they already want to find a way to be able to serve you too, wouldn't you say?

A perfect example of this happened at an event that I was at. I met this woman at the very end. She came up to me. The event was over. She was like, “I wanted to meet you.” I asked her what she does. That's what I do. I ask them and find out about them first. She shared all about what she does. We have a very different ideal client. She was nice. I was thinking, “I don't think we're going to be able to collaborate,” but then she asked me, “Who's your ideal client?”

After she asked me what I do, she said, “Who's your ideal client?” I said, “I love working with coaches. I love working with consultants like women who have left corporate and who are super smart. They're good at what they do but they have never had to find a client before. Clients were always given to them. They have no idea how to find clients and enroll them. I love working with them. They have resources.”

She says, “I have someone to refer to you. He's a coach that helps people transition from corporate to entrepreneurship. I'm going to make an email introduction to you.” She was referring me to a JV partner or a power partner. That was so beautiful. I'm like, “I want to help this woman big time. I'm not sure how I can but we're going to get together, and I'm going to learn more about what she does and see where I could possibly help her.”

I love that. That's what is so important. I hear a lot of times people say when they're out networking, “I don't go to that group because there's already somebody there who does what I do.” Some of the best partners I have ever had, the best referrals, and the best introductions have been from people who overlap with me. Some of them even do what I do.

My show is Marketing, Media, & Money. More marketing people want to come on my show than anything, which I love because I want them to share a different perspective. Maybe they specialize in something different from me. How do you feel about the whole overlapping? I don't believe in competition. How do you feel about that? I hear people say it all the time. I'm like, “You're missing the boat there.”

It's so funny because I was thinking about this. We want to come from a place of abundance, not scarcity. There's a dear friend of mine who is a sales coach but she works with energy healers. She does healing on her calls during her mastermind. I don't do energy healing. She has a whole system designed for energy healers. We promote each other all the time. We interview each other. I have my launch coming up. She's going to be interviewing me for her community.

I've had several of her clients sign up for my Power Up Your Sales program. We love working with each other because we're different. You have your special unique sauce, Patty, for marketing. There will be another person that's going to have a different approach, a different method, and a different way of being. I want to have other people who do what I do. If I'm not the right fit, I can find someone for them who would be a good fit.

That is so true. I have so many people that are in what they call the marketing space but marketing could be people that do branding. They could do websites or graphic design. If you say, “What industry?” they will say, “Marketing,” but we don't all do the same things. For me, it's all about not being competitive. It's all about integrity.

I know that if somebody is, for example, in the marketing space, and they come to me and say, “My client could use some little help in this area,” and they will name an area, “Could you help them with that? I would like to bring you in,” I'll say, “Great.” Let's say I do, and we have a great rapport. They should say to me, “I didn't know you do this or that. Can I hire you for that?” I would never take them on as a client because as soon as that other marketing person asks me to come in, they're the client for me.

I would edify them and send that person back to them. That way, if they wanted to tell that person they wanted to bring me in for something else but I want all the people that I work with to know that I have integrity, I'm never going to try to take your client because when you send them to me, you are now my client. That is important, and that is why I have a lot of collaborative or JV partners who do overlap with me. It's an opportunity that people miss a lot.

Tremendously because they're coming from scarcity. It's like, “She does what I do. I'm not going to collaborate with her,” but not everybody is going to gel with me, or not everyone is going to gel with you. We have different personalities and styles. There's so much out there for all of us. The more we give and put out into the universe, the more we will bring back in. It's the law of attraction.

That's what my whole belief is. Lean with contributions. Compensation will follow for sure. It is true. This is the conversation that people need to be having. Let's talk about follow-ups. You've gone to all these places. You've asked all these great questions. You've told people you would do an introduction for them. Before we do, I do want to say one single thing that I thought of.

One of the things that I always like to say, and I would love to know how you feel and how you tell your people to handle this, is, “If you tell someone that you will do an intro and you will send them this resource or whatever the case may be, it's a deliverable you said you would do. Don't make them have to come after you and beg you for it because nothing looks worse than that.”

What a terrible feeling it is to be like, “They said they sent it to me, or they would do it. It has been three days. Do I go back and ask them? How long do I wait?” It is an uncomfortable thing. It changes the dynamic of the relationship that you're building with them. Before we get into follow-ups, is there a certain way you propose, suggest, share, tell, or teach about the timeframe or the way it is to do what you say you're going to do on the deliverables that you said you would do?

I like to do it the next day. This happened because I was at a three-day event. I put a note in my calendar to remind me. It alarmed me and reminded me to send my referral language to this woman who I mentioned who wants to refer this other coach to me. You want to do it within a day if you're traveling a day after you get back. I'm still here in town. I'm going to do it.

You say that what people want most of all is for you to do what you say. A lot of times, I'm out of town speaking. I meet people. I'll tell them that I'll do something, “I'm still here speaking. I won't even be home until whatever,” and then I'll tell them when they can expect to get it from me. Sometimes I still can do it when I get back to the hotel but what they're looking for is that you do it whenever you said that you would do it. You need to say, “I can't do it on Monday.” That's okay as long as you do it on the day you said you would do it.

You want to be a person of your word. People are looking at how you follow up with them. I'll tell you something that I've realized. There's a saying, “How you do anything is how you do everything.” People are looking to see how you follow up with them. Are you going to do what you say you're going to do? Are you going to call or provide the resource or whatever it is that you promised them?

They're going to think, “If she or he isn't even coming through with what they promised if I become a client, what service could I expect? If I become a partner, are they going to follow up with the people I refer them to?” That's a whole other conversation that I don't think we have time to go into. When you're referring people, you need to make sure they are following up with the people you're referring them to because if not, it makes you look bad. You need to find somebody else to refer people to who do what they say they're going to do.

MMAM 135 | Follow-Up

Follow-Up: When referring people, make sure you are following up with them. Otherwise, it will make you look bad.

I remember several years ago. I'll never forget it. Somebody that I had met told me they would do an introduction, and they did what they said they would. They did the introduction. The person was nice. They did what that person told me they would do but for whatever reason, our personalities didn't quite mesh while we were on the call. I remember she did a couple of things that put me off a little bit. I was like, “I'm not quite so sure.” I was nice. I gave her a few resources.

A couple of days go by. The person who did the introduction came back to me and asked me, “How did that go?” You don't know what to say. I said, “To be honest, it was great but there were a couple of things that didn't align with my values and my beliefs. There's nothing personal about that person but we didn't align. They said a couple of things.” That person said, “What were the things?” It's not personal about them but they wanted to know, “I did this introduction. I would like to know.” I told her, and she said, “Do you mind if I go back to the person?”

I was blown away but she was like, “You need to understand. I give this person's name out and do introductions a lot. If this is what's happening, I need to know because this represents me and my name.” I remember thinking how much integrity that was that she would be willing to have an uncomfortable situation and have an uncomfortable conversation, and she did. That person came back to me and said, “I led you to believe something that wasn't accurate.” We had another conversation. To this day, we still do business together.

What a great story.

That person came back. I had never had that happen. That was years ago. I see it happen probably better than 50% of the time now. I always do it but it is important. It should be part of your system. Let's talk about that because you're all about the follow-up system. It's not telling people that they should follow up but you have a step-by-step system. I'm not going to ask you to share the whole step-by-step because that's why people hire you but can you give us a little bit?

I always want to make sure we're giving value to the people. My whole thing is if they're on the show, I want people to know that if you hire them, they're going to take you further. I want to make sure that they get value for their time. Let's talk about the follow-up system. What are the components of a follow-up system? Tell us in your words a little bit about what's the difference if you say, “This is what I'm going to do when you do that,” versus what the results can be if you have a system and how that can equate to more sales.

A lot of people wing it because they don't have a system or a process. They don't know what they're going to say when they're following up with people for different scenarios. It depends on why you're following up. If you're following up with someone because you think you could be good partners and collaborate, and if you haven't made the appointment to meet with them from the event, you want to follow up with them. Let me back up. You come back from an event. Add everybody to your CRM immediately, tag them for the event, and then start following up with them one at a time.

Add one person to your CRM, reach out, and prioritize based on the people who are most interested in collaborating with you and the people who are most interested in learning more about what you have to offer for themselves like potential clients. You want to prioritize. If you have cards or how you're collecting people's information, have a way to highlight that you know that those are the people that you want to get back with first.

Before you go, I want to make sure because I don't want to get feedback. I already know that I'm going to get feedback on what you said. I want to make sure that we backtrack. Before you're adding them to your CRM, you're getting permission from them to be added.

There are two separate things. There's the CRM, and then there's the email marketing system. You can add anybody you want to your CRM. You just can't add them to your mailing list. I'm glad you brought that up. If you add them to your email marketing system, you have to have permission. It's against the law to add people without their permission. The CRM is for one-off follow-ups. It's not for mass emails. You've done that. You reach out to them. Here's where people fall through the cracks.

They will make a call, leave a message, text them, and connect with them on social media or how they're reaching out, and then nothing happens because they didn't set another reminder to follow up with them two days later or the next day. You can't keep track of all these people in your head. No matter what way I follow up with people, I always put a reminder in. Before I move on to the next person, I'm putting it on my calendar for 1 day or 2 out depending on the scenario and the person to follow up again. If you don't do that, people are going to slip through the cracks because you move on to the next thing. That's key.

What would you say for the one that's not the one that you're getting permissions for and not the email marketing one but your follow-up system? This is how you're going to follow up. How would you say it's best to do that? Are you doing it on an Excel spreadsheet? Are you doing it on a Google Doc? If somebody was going to do that and they say they weren't doing that, let's say they were doing it wrong and adding everybody to their email marketing list, which they shouldn't, or else they're having a stack of business cards next to their desk or doing something like that, and if they needed to start with the most basic thing, what is that? Somebody walks off this call and is like, “I'm going to do that. I'm going to touch base with Debbie and know where to go but where do I need to start?”

What I was talking about with adding them to your CRM is the first place to start. You don't need an Excel spreadsheet. When I'm following up with people for a certain program, and I've got my Power Up Your Sales program coming up, I've created a Google spreadsheet with everybody I've called and left messages with so I can have everybody in one place. Unless you have a specific event or program you're inviting people to, you follow up through your CRM and set the reminder in your CRM. It pops up that two days later, you're supposed to reach out to them.

That keeps you going. You want to keep it super simple. You don't need to make it complicated. This is not rocket science. You need to have a process but the key thing is even if you text somebody or even if you reach out on Facebook Messenger, you've got to set the reminder for the next time to reach out to them or else, you will forget about them.

MMAM 135 | Follow-Up

Follow-Up: Create your own follow-up system to keep you going. Just keep it simple. It doesn’t have to be complicated.

That is so important. Honestly, when you do it, people recognize that which makes you look so much better because it shows that you're being very professional and intentional. I love working with people who have a system. That makes sense. It's reliable. It does create a flow. I like having a flow. We have heard all the stories, “Everybody needs seven touches. You need this and that.”

We have heard all kinds of different things. Once you have done that and started your follow-up, what would you say? It's always going to change because it always depends on what the conversation is. Sometimes they're going to ask you but as a general rule, what would you say is when the time is right to start talking about sales?

It depends on who this person is. If somebody leaned in when you were talking to them at a networking event and said, “I want to learn about what you do for me. I'm struggling with XYZ,” you want to make sure they're not just saying it. You can clarify, “Was that an offhanded remark? Are you serious?” Sometimes they say it to make you feel good, “Where are you struggling?” I'll ask people, “What's your biggest challenge with sales and follow-up? Where are you getting tripped up the most?”

If I feel that they're telling me the truth, I'll set an appointment right then and there and invite them for a discovery session. I'll ask them for permission. I won't say, “Let's do this.” I'll say, “The next step would be for us to connect for a discovery session. It's complimentary. It's free. We will explore what you want to create and what's getting in the way. If we're a good fit, we will talk about the next steps. Would you like to do that?” instead of giving them the link.

If they say yes and have a URL that's connected to your calendar to make it super easy, then say, “Do you have your phone with you?” You give them the link, and they can go right on in the moment and book a call. If they're interested, do it then. If they're not ready to do that, then you're going to follow up with them and have a preliminary conversation. I typically go right to the discovery session because if they have leaned in, they're ready. If they haven't leaned in, then I'm reaching out to them to collaborate and see if we can collaborate.

That is a whole different conversation. I've had so many times people lean in during that call and say, “I suck at follow-ups. My conversion is low. I'm struggling with sales. I would like to talk to you about how you can support me.” I'll make another appointment because that call was for collaboration. I'll say, “Why don't we finish our conversation here about how we can support each other, and then we will set another time?”

It depends on the scenario, what has transpired at the networking event, and if they leaned in or not but I'm not calling people that I meet at networking events to sell them. I'm calling them to see if we can collaborate. If they're not a good partner, they might know some other people. This woman was not the perfect partner for me but she already had someone she could refer. We never want to close down and go, “She has a different ideal client than I do. She's not a good partner for me.”

It's like, “Let's meet anyway.” If you like them and if there's an energetic connection, you trust them and you feel good around them. I don't connect with salesy, pushy, and aggressive people. They're not my people. I like to collaborate with more heart-centered and mission-driven entrepreneurs but you never know what referral will come from them. It's not always for a client. It could be for another JV or power partner.

MMAM 135 | Follow-Up

Follow-Up: Collaborate with heart-centered and mission-driven entrepreneurs. You never know what kind of referral will come from them.

That makes a lot of sense. I know that you have this step-by-step process. I'm curious, and I'm sure everybody reading is too. How many steps is it? I've heard people say, “Step-by-step, it's five steps.” I've had people say, “Step-by-step, it's 35 steps.” It's a simple step-by-step system.

It's nine steps. It's simple.

People like simple. It's easy. They have you. That is a good thing too. I've known you for a while. This step-by-step process that I have helps lead to sales without having to be salesy because nobody wants to be salesy. If you actively listen, show up, and want to serve, the conversation will naturally happen. I'm in marketing. Believe me, if people don't want to be talking or have anybody pitch about marketing, which I never do, they will say so right away.

They will give you the vibe you know but then again, you could have a conversation with somebody, and they will say, “My marketing sucks.” They're ready to have a conversation. It doesn't mean they're ready to hire you but they're ready to have a conversation where you can give them some type of value. I love to be of service. Not everybody is my client even if they wanted to hire me. That is important, too, for people to realize when you're following up. Would you say that when you follow up with people, what you will follow up and find is that they're not the client for you but they may be somebody for you to introduce to somebody else in your network?

We're always serving our network as well. We will find that the follow-up will show us that they're not always for you, and just because somebody talks to you at an event does not mean that they're the right person for you. Would you say and agree with me that it isn't just, “Are you the right fit for them?” but where we are in our business also, “Are you the right fit for us?” It has to be reciprocal. It's not one-sided. Sometimes people want to hire me. They're not my client.

I'm so glad you brought this up because early on in my business, and I see this with people, they think they can help everybody, or they're desperate and they want clients. If you take on a client that isn't a good fit, it will be a nightmare for you and them. You need to be selective and clear on who your ideal client is. It's so interesting because, in this day and age, everyone is like, “Who's your avatar? Who's your ideal client?” For me, it's not so much what they do. It's how they show up and how I feel around them.

I love working with coaches and consultants. Those are my two favorite types of clients to work with but I've worked with all sorts of entrepreneurs, even realtors, and network marketers. It's more that they're showing up energetically in a way that's in alignment with me. They're passion-driven. They're caring people. They want to make a difference, and I feel it.

I immediately know when I get on Zoom with a potential client for a discovery session if they're a good fit or not. I feel it energetically. If you bend that and don't stick to that, it will be a nightmare and you will regret it. One time, there was a woman I was very clear was not the right fit for me. I said nicely, “I don't think we're a good fit. Would you like me to refer you to someone else who could help you?” They appreciate that.

That says a lot about someone. We talked a lot about follow-ups and your system and a lot about the mindset of doing it. Let's go back a little bit. I said when I was introducing you that you worked for twenty years on Wall Street. What I want to know is everybody doesn't wake up one day and say, “This is what I want to do, and that's it.” Most entrepreneurs have a little bit of a meandering road to get us to where we're showing up and where we know what we know. We know that’s where we need to be. I always find that when that happens, there has always been an a-ha moment.

There has always been something that happens in our journey that's an a-ha moment that makes us realize that maybe there were skills that led up to it but something led up to it. In that a-ha moment, you knew that either what you were doing or what you want to do is the thing where your passion and your purpose is. It all happens in an entrepreneur's journey. We all have it. Can you go back a little bit now? I love this whole heart-centered sales and follow-up. To me, somewhere there's a story in there. Go back and share with us the a-ha moment that shifted for you when you knew that this is who you wanted to serve and how you wanted to do it.

It's an interesting story. There's a little bit of a twist to it. It's not exactly how you articulated it but it's a cool story. I came from Wall Street, a salesy, pushy, and aggressive place to be. It was me and the guys. I did well by being pushy and aggressive because that's what the industry was. It was accepted. I come into the entrepreneurial world, and I'm showing up in that same way. I would go to networking events. These women who I knew would see me coming and be on their way because they're like, “She's going to talk to me about her wellness products again.” They didn't want to have anything to do with it.

I was devastated, “What is going on here? Why are people running away from me?” I had that a-ha moment where I realized I am too attached to my agenda. Plus, we had gone through bankruptcy and foreclosure. I was desperate financially. I needed clients, and people can feel that energy. Energy is very subtle but it's powerful. I didn't realize what was going on.

All of a sudden, I had this moment where I went, “I've got to show up in service to these people. I need to see how I can help them. I let go of my agenda and my attachment results. Don't go there trying to sell to them and get them to buy my products. See what I can do for them.” Everything turned around from that moment.

This is how there's a little twist to it. During that time, I didn't think, “I need to teach this to people.” I was following up with a woman from an event. I had a booth for these health and wellness products. She asked me to follow up with her, which I did for fourteen months. A lot of people would not do that. Fourteen months is a long time. Finally, she became a client, left me a message one day, and said, “You're amazing at follow-ups. You need to teach me your system.” We got on the phone, and she said, “No one follows up the way you do. You've got a gift. You need to do something with this.”

I was like, “What are you talking about?” I believe that we all have this gift or this genius that we have that we take for granted. Sometimes we need somebody outside of us to point it out. Long story short, she invited me to an event. They asked us to make an offer for something. I said, “What do I offer?” She said, “Offer a five-week teleseminar.” Remember, we used to call them teleseminars. I was like, “I don't have a five-week teleseminar.” She said, “Offer it.” It was this game. I was the first person to share my offer. I called it something stupid. I don't even remember what it was. It's the basic principles of follow-up or something like that. It was horrible.

At the end of the event, two people came up to me and gave me their credit cards. It was a $97 offer. I called my husband at the time and said, “We need to create a program.” I figured I might as well invite other people. I doubled the price. I had 22 people in my first program and then 24 in the next. I raised it to $497 and then $997. I started offering one-on-one coaching. It wasn't like I woke up one day and said, “I'm amazing at this. I need to teach people.” It was somebody else pointing it out to me. I'm forever grateful to her because I would not be here if it wasn't for her.

I love that. I find that for myself as well that no matter what I do, whatever I do next is because people will say, “It would be great if you did this. It would be great if you added a day here and did this.” Your people will tell you. If you listen, they will tell you. From that story, what I love the most is this mission statement where your mission is to support entrepreneurs to share their gifts and get their message out in a big way so that they can create the impact they're here to make. I can see from the story you shared how impactful that must be.

One of the things that I've always loved about you is there is no BS about you. Anybody who spent five minutes with you would know how authentic and heart-centered you are, and that you care. It's not just that you have a system, and you're following this system but you do care. People would be able to tell that. You're a perfect person to be teaching this. I love that.

I'm going to show my audience exactly what that looks like because a lot of times when people come on my show, they will say, “Can I share a gift with your audience?” I'll be like, “Yes.” She is going to give you so many things. It is unbelievable. Let's start first with the Power-Up Biz Quiz. Tell everybody a little bit about that and how they're also going to receive those authentic conversations too. Tell them a little bit about the gift first.

There is this assessment that I put together, which is an eye-opener. Talk about an a-ha moment. When people take this assessment, they're assessing themselves on different sales and follow-up skills. You will get to see exactly where you're doing well with your sales and follow-up, and you can celebrate those areas, and then where potential clients and income may be slipping through the cracks. That's where you want to focus, whether you get support from me or whoever else but you will need someone to help you with those areas. It takes seven minutes probably or less. You're going to learn so much about yourself. Once you take it, you will get an email with a summary of your scores.

There's another gift. Where people get tripped up the most is they don't know what to say when they're following up. There are three scenarios that people get tripped up the most with that I found. I've created Authentic Conversations: 3 Templates to Connect, Serve, and Sell From The Heart. These scripts are going to help you with situations where you might not even reach out to somebody because you don't know what to say. People love scripts. Remember, you don't want to ever read a script. It's there as a roadmap. Many people say, “I'm not into scripts.” I'm into authentic conversations but having a roadmap is critical because people flounder and wing it. There's no consistency. They don't get the results because of that.

What you're saying is not only are they going to get this Power-Up Biz Quiz, which is going to tell them so much about themselves, sales, and stuff but then on top of that, you're also going to give them these Authentic Conversations templates that are scripts that are going to help them to know what to say. I love that. There's more. She also has 4 Secrets to “Power-Up” Your Sales Guide. Tell us a little bit about what that is.

There are four key areas that I focus on in these four secrets. One is starting with a mindset shift around follow-up because a lot of people feel that follow-up is salesy and pushy. We talk about that and then how to be prepared before any follow-up step that you take. We have been talking about how so many people wing it. I talk about systems and technology. We didn't even get into that but there are different tools and resources on the technology side to keep you on track.

I talk about all kinds of systems, the technology part, what to do and what to say systems, and then referrals, which are key to growing a business. It's to have a referral strategy in place. There's a lot of good stuff in there. I give so much in this guide. It's a great tool to help you see four key areas and some tips that you can implement right away for your business.

That's beautiful. You're going to get this quiz. It's going to tell you a lot. You're going to get these scripts, which are going to tell you a lot about what to say. She's going to give you this guide that's going to increase your sales and help you with the system, referrals, and all that. That's a lot. Thank you so much for sharing so generously. How can people connect with you? If they want to connect with you, what's your website, which I always say is the go-to place where you will find all this information? What is your website so that they can connect with you?

It's There's a link there to click if you want to connect with me.

You're going to have all kinds of ways to be able to connect with her. Like you didn't already give us so much value, Debbie, we always love to end our show and our wrap-up by having this open-mic portion where we asked you this. If you had to narrow it down, what would be your number one marketing, media, or money strategy?

One of the strategies that I found has been super helpful for me and my clients is to do a Facebook Live at least once a week. I go on Zoom. I do Follow-Up Friday. I call it my Follow-Up Friday tips. I go on Zoom, I record it, I go live on Facebook so that people can jump on live, I post it everywhere, and I share actionable steps that they can take right away that week to move their business forward. There's a lot of good content in there. I'm sharing, “Do it this week and then report back in. I want to hear how it went,” to get feedback from people, “I did this, and this is what happened.”

I love how you always also have a call to action. It's always important. A call to action doesn't always mean selling something. It could be, “Reach out. Hit reply.” A call to action could be a lot of things. I love that. Thank you so much for being here with me, Debbie, and for being so very generous in not just your brilliance but in your gifts as well. I appreciate you so much.

Thank you so much for having me, Patty. This was super fun. I appreciate you, our relationship, and our collaboration. It's always fun hanging out with you. I love the work you're doing. The show and the magazine are amazing. I'm so grateful to be part of that as well.

I love having you write for the magazine as well. If you're somebody who wants to learn even more, Debbie is one of the columnists for the Marketing, Media, & Money Magazine. You can grab that copy at Grab a free copy of the magazine. That would be great. You will hear all from Debbie as well.

Would you like a simple answer to the question, “Where should I focus my time and energy to attract highly-qualified ideal clients?” Take the Marketing, Media, & Money Assessment in three minutes or less. You will know where you're excelling, where you can make a few changes, and what steps to take to achieve massive results. Go to M3 stands for Marketing, Media, and Money.

Thank you everyone for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, and I am sure you did, please subscribe and review the show on your favorite platform. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you again, Debbie, for being here. Everybody, have a phenomenal, productive, and profitable week. We will see you in the next episode.